IOTM 01/07/2013 My Funny Valentine

[Profusia]

Yes guilty, as charged. I can't tear myself away from the garden for any length of time. Only to cool down. I keep telling myself "get indoors and play" then my other self says "in a minute" I really want to have a bash at all the tunes and I will. I do enjoy listening to all the recordings on here though (from the comfort of my sun lounger) so keep going everyone 🙂

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@ Thomas - on another note, you made a very valid point on one of Ian's thread about posting feedback for people and I absolutely concur with you. I sometimes find it difficult to make intelligent remarks as I don't feel as musically mature as the players who have posted. I struggle with more than 'loved it' etc. Maybe that's enough, who knows.

On that note, I'm off for an ice cream

Sorry for off topic 🙂

Ice cream is NEVER off topic ;}

 

[visionari1]

Ice cream is NEVER off topic ;}

Mention Ice cream and I'm there....I'LL HAVE CHOCOLATE PLEASE!

Catching up on this topic and in reference to Thomas and I think Chris K's quote about things being a bit quiet around this thread.
After all the solid efforts of Gary Burtons Coursera, I have been re-adjusting how I tackle a tune and am going about learning this new langauge called Jazz.

The tune "My One & Only Love" dragged me into the Ballad Thread, a personal favourite of mine which I enjoyed and learnt lots from. Also had a go at Reflections also good for me, still not coming to grips with the changes, and seriously doubting its validity for me. The serious study of chords, & trying to play them in time and sound melodic, in fact seem to create just the opposite!

Also the singing thread, ie is it good for Improv has also influenced my thinking on this matter.

I now am playing along to other versions of the tunes we are doing like MY funny Valentine, How High the Moon, Reflection etc.
Once I've learnt the head, by reading the dots, then start to get it comfortable to play from memory, which takes a week or two, then I start on the chords, so far this appears to be a backwards step, it becomes mechanical, amateurish and hard going!
I have been working on these tunes but not posting because the chords parts sound....well....not worth listenings too (I could use stronger language)

To cheer me up, I then fire up Spotify and play along to people like Sonny Rollins, Don Byas, Benny Carter, Lucky Thompson etc and find it's real fun and think I'm picking up language, in the way it's meant to be picked up.
Sometimes I put a phrase from these masters into Transcribe and really get into it, slowing it down if need be, and really grinding into my memory the phrase, it's essence, feel and timing.. All this is enjoyable but also time consuming, so by the time the next tune is off and running, I'm still half baked with getting whatever tune we're working on anywhere near recording and posting.
So apologies for not posting, though I'm working in the background.

I'm finding some tunes, for me are easier to play a few notes from the chords, while others are in never never land!

It's mid winter here, with heavy frosts, but beautiful clear days. I'm sitting beside a heater, got out of bed before 4 am........ to investigate the Impro-visor application, I downloaded it (for free, during the Coursera course) some time ago...perhaps it may help with the Blessed Chord Changes??????

Too early and too cold...even for me...to have Ice- cream!

Ps The guys at Jazz Advice recently posted this one about Tipping Points... I found it to be great advice at this time on my musical journey!

http://jazzadvice.com

 

[Profusia]

Mention Ice cream and I'm there....I'LL HAVE CHOCOLATE PLEASE!

http://jazzadvice.com

Oi join the back of the queue! ;}

Great to see you're still with us Jimu!! 🙂 And thanks for what looks like a really inspiring link with masses of ideas

 

[thesaxman71]

Here you go lovely peoples in saxophone-land...
Here is my version of My funny valentine...
As mentioned by Chris and several other forum members, it was suggested I to post something so people working on improvisation can get some idea's and an insight to what the thought processes are behind each idea with a breakdown in a Questions and Answers format.

Any questions regarding phrasing of the melody, jazz improvisation idea's on a specific section, grouping of notes, effects or bars etc etc, I will do my best to explain.
peace to all,
Ian
youtube link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1nzJMred3Y4
soundcloud link: https://soundcloud.com/ian-t-thesaxman71/my-funny-valentine

 

[thesaxman71]

it may be easier if i explain and demo via skype if needed, just a thought.

 

[visionari1]

it may be easier if i explain and demo via skype if needed, just a thought.

Brilliant...again Ian,

The first question which springs to my mind is..... after you've played through the head and started proper on the improv, how do you keep the tune and or chords running in your head, also the place in the music when you start playing stuff that works really well, but doesn't have any obvious reference to the tune. What happens with me when I leave the tune totally, I'm listening to myself and totally loose where I am in the tune.

This is what baffles me and obviously does not trouble you at all????

Not sure how a Skype demo would work.

Do you figure out before hand certain ideas you want to do at certain bars,,, Ie altisimmo at Bars...... or I'll put in these rythms here....or how you will be starting an ending the tune. I presume you study the tune in detail beforehand.
Do you practise any of the difficult chords, scales or changes in anyway beforehand?

I've heard (read) high level players say the first or second takes are the best, what's your opinion on this! I think most of Kind of Blue was in this category.

I would think that to play at this level your energy needs to be high, so does time of day affect your feeling and what about eating and even mood.

I was going to ask only one question, but a tap opened in side of me, so it's not often I get to ask a real player, whose willing to answer these type of basic and perhaps more advanced questions.

Not putting the hard word on you Ian, however any light may be helpfull!

Cheers from the Land of the Long White Cloud (Aotearoa)
Jimu

 

[Di in France]

Sometimes I put a phrase from these masters into Transcribe and really get into it, slowing it down if need be, and really grinding into my memory the phrase, it's essence, feel and timing.

Hi Jimu, this sounds interesting, is it software that you can get to transcribe clips of music?

 

[Colin the Bear]

You have to get to know a piece before you can wander off. If you're not reading the chord chart while you play, listen while you play the tune for 100 times and then you should always know where you are. Learning a few of the words helps too. If you still can't hear the chords or count/feel your way through, listen to the bass line. I find listening to a faster version makes the changes easier to make sense of.

 

[thesaxman71]

Brilliant...again Ian,

The first question which springs to my mind is..... after you've played through the head and started proper on the improv, how do you keep the tune and or chords running in your head, also the place in the music when you start playing stuff that works really well, but doesn't have any obvious reference to the tune. What happens with me when I leave the tune totally, I'm listening to myself and totally loose where I am in the tune.
I tend to nail down and listen to and 'feel' the basic 'key centre' and less about the extra chords, this is done by playing the head over and over (in this case D minor for tenor), so regardless if I am in the heat of improvising and intentionally (or not) 'wandering astray' then i can still have that basic 'key centre' keeping me on track in my head for reference and also really getting to know the melody helps because when i was recording the melody i was actively thinking about the words singing it in my head as i played and how to portray things with a lyrical approach.

This is what baffles me and obviously does not trouble you at all????
At times in the past i have been totally lost and messed up, just thinking about 1st time i 'attempted' giant steps, boy was that ugly and still can be if not on my toe's ! but that get's less with more jazz and improvisation you do, that old word practice practice practice.

Not sure how a Skype demo would work.
I can talk you through some idea's, show them in context of a chord progression and have a mini playalong session on small sections with you to demo.
Do you figure out before hand certain ideas you want to do at certain bars,,, Ie altisimmo at Bars...... or I'll put in these rythms here....or how you will be starting an ending the tune. I presume you study the tune in detail beforehand.
Do you practise any of the difficult chords, scales or changes in anyway beforehand?
Sometimes i can hear a certain impro idea 'style' i am feeling or group of notes that i think have nice tone quality in the key centre but i don't specifically think to put them exact notes in specific bars before i improvise. The effects, altisimo are just extra decoration that i use when the 'mood' takes me, sometimes i feel it detracts so i don't bother using it but sometimes it can be great to use. The rythm idea's are something i play with and feed to myself by improvising over the piece a few times before recording because it gives me a basic feel for the piece and what rythmical direction i am thinking at that time, be it long notes on the beat based rythm or off the beat feel so when recording i have given myself a basic rythm feel subconsciensly that helps me 'get into it' more.
Knowing the melody is important for me almost to the point where you feel as if you could of wrote it cos you are that familiar with it. The more difficult chords i do look at but not in great detail, just a quick scan or just to use them as more of an ornament at that point if i wish but still feeling and using the basic key centre as a 'safety net' so to speak but i have worked a lot in general on scales, chords etc etc and that is important for jazz language and improvising.
I've heard (read) high level players say the first or second takes are the best, what's your opinion on this! I think most of Kind of Blue was in this category.
Yes that can be true also, sometimes when recording, the 1st few takes can be 'golden' and great then the next however many dozen takes can feel like a chore and or frustrating, so i put this down to the mind/body feeling more fresh on the first few takes with fresh idea's then the more you do the less fresh it feels and is naturally getting complacent hence sounding or feeling not as good as the earlier takes, when this happens i take a break then come back refreshed.

I would think that to play at this level your energy needs to be high, so does time of day affect your feeling and what about eating and even mood.
Yes indeed, after some sessions and most gigs i have felt as if i just done a workout both physically and mentally drained and that i can eat or drink for 2 people because,when in 'the zone', it is easy to forget to eat or drink for a big length of time so now i am more aware of it and tend to make sure before recording or doing a gig that all is in order there regarding energy levels by eating/drinking something if i know i am going to have a bit of a session. Mood can have an influence but i try not to think of it or change it and i welcome my 'mood at the time' to help influence my idea's, then it really is something more personal coming out and not just like playing a written exercise.
I was going to ask only one question, but a tap opened in side of me, so it's not often I get to ask a real player, whose willing to answer these type of basic and perhaps more advanced questions.

Not putting the hard word on you Ian, however any light may be helpfull!

Cheers from the Land of the Long White Cloud (Aotearoa)
Jimu

I have highlighted (bold writing) answers to each question above inset in the quote.
Overall, the things i wrote are just in reference to point's you isolated, but as with improvisation, they can change too.
I hope this is of use to you. We can talk more on skype, maybe better and easier to get in depth so just PM me and we can take it from there.
Ian

 

[visionari1]

You have to get to know a piece before you can wander off. If you're not reading the chord chart while you play, listen while you play the tune for 100 times and then you should always know where you are. Learning a few of the words helps too. If you still can't hear the chords or count/feel your way through, listen to the bass line. I find listening to a faster version makes the changes easier to make sense of.

Real good information here Colin...I hear you loud and clear....I'm not playing the tune enough....I've been told this before, also listening to the base line and have tried the faster approach too.

I think progress in most things I do, is stunted because I only half learn things & then charge off to the next thing!
I'm interested in a million & one things.....instead of just 99999999999 etc.

Yes I've also tried the words and listening to singers to learn the tune and to get there phrasing....so we have the tools...using them at the appropriate times is the key!

Ta for you input and TA for the info on Do What YOu Do Right.

 

[visionari1]

I have highlighted (bold writing) answers to each question above inset in the quote.
Overall, the things i wrote are just in reference to point's you isolated, but as with improvisation, they can change too.
I hope this is of use to you. We can talk more on skype, maybe better and easier to get in depth so just PM me and we can take it from there.
Ian

G'day Ian,

Brilliant reply...I've read it three times and so much to think about... I need to focus on a few of those ideas/suggestions and revisit them often.

A consistent plan of attack on this improv front is indeed for me needed.

I think the Coursera course brought in so much more information, widening out the field of study, does not necessarily bring any improvement.

At the most basic level, I don't know my scales. or chords, or arppegios to the level as Gary Burtons says (instant recall) and to charge off onto higher ground, I'm assuming will not bare fruit unless I have a certain level of mastery in scales, in ear training, in learning tunes, etc, etc, etc.

So in figuring our how to eat an elephant....figure out, do I really want to eat this elephant....and slowly and surely go at it one small bite at a time!

It's the narrowing of the right information...that will work for me, to start to get a handle on this improvisation malarky.

It's so easy to listen to and enjoy.....I've found not quite so easy to master, or even get off square one!

One needs to be patient, attentive and focused, these I feel do not come naturally to me, however I am stubborn, naive enough, enthusiastic and ready willing and able to enjoy the ride!

Ta for your input and advice.

 

[visionari1]

Hi Jimu, this sounds interesting, is it software that you can get to transcribe clips of music?

G'day Di

Transcribe is a software programme for your computer.

Available here

http://www.seventhstring.com

I've been using it for years, cost from memory around $40us

I thoroughly recommend it as do these guys at Jazz Advice

http://jazzadvice.com

Some Youtube offerings on Transcribe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6Xmsu6AI6c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fr_5v6nc-s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH8oudKwQiA

Looks like I need to have real look at these myself!
The way I use it is to load a tune (any MP3 for that matter) into it.

I then add the bars.

You can add text boxes for comments on Chords or individual notes.
I isolate and loop certain section, you can even slow it down (it still stays on pitch) so you can really practice and get the exact copying of a players interpretation.

I load several windows of it with different version of the same tune and cycle back and forwards between them.

I would not be without this it is a great learning tool....I've looked at Band in a Box, but it's too complex for me.

Hope this helps Di....and most important it doesn't take you away from playing your horn, but helps you play better!

 

[Colin the Bear]

This is a handy bit of software

http://gb.abrsm.org/en/exam-support/practice-tools-and-applications/speedshifter/

Very easy to use and free.

 

[Sue]

This is a handy bit of software

http://gb.abrsm.org/en/exam-support/practice-tools-and-applications/speedshifter/

Very easy to use and free.

Plus 1 for this - just recently available on IOS & android too

 

[saxplorer]

Better late than never?

https://soundcloud.com/saxplorer/my-funny-valentine

 

[Chris]

Hi Andrew, sorry for not catching this one quicker, been away for a few days. Nice melodic solo on the 2nd chorus, good solid tone on the melody. Only one point, the tuning went out in a few places, other than that it was a good listen.

Chris..

 

[Colin the Bear]

A retrospective.

"Please take your partners for the next dance. Gentlemen please be aware this one is a ladies excuse me. Go get 'em girls"

https://soundcloud.com/colin-the-bear/my-funny-valentine-ladies