Playing the saxophone What does professional musician mean?

Personally i thing Professional means to me more about the persons ability rather than how many gigs they play and how much they earn.
If Chris Potter suddenly decided to make a living doing a different job and did a few gigs on the side would he lose his professional status?, to me he would still be a professional player.
 
Maybe the music industry should ditch "professional" etc? Is this an example of one field trying to seem more proper by adopting the terminologi of another? Like in academia when flakey subjects like politics and sociology slap "science" in their name?

How about (going back to?)
Amateur
Apprentice
Journeyman
Master
 
I think maybe the word professional's original meaning was purely pertaining to someone who did something for money or to make a living, whereas an amateur did it for the love of doing it (from the latin amor or amare) - the latter being in some eyes more noble than the commercial aspect.

It does seem to have become to mean someone who is very accomplished or even good enough to be famous.
 
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Fascinating!
So, according to

In the 1200s

By the 1700s "professional" is more to do with jobs and "amateur" is introduced.

So, if "original" means 1700s, fair comment.
By extension, that means, the first step towards becoming a professional is to call yourself a professional.

Which brings back the old adage: "Either you have money or you talk about it" >:)

So it is really a conundrum.
 
So it is really a conundrum
The thing to do be in a, closed shop, guild.
Then the Guild decides who's called what, what's the training, how much is paid, how much of that is kicked-up through to the Guild Grand Poobah etc.
That is how: Law, Engineering, Medicine, Accountancy, Academia and religion work now.
Want to be a professional? Tick these professional development boxes and send us $£€500 per annum.
 
My teacher is a 'professional' musician. Music is how he pays his bills & puts food on the table.

It certainly isn't easy, gigs don't pay a great amount, so he teaches. Having a handful of regular students can pay more than a gig or two here and there.

I know another player that is currently playing a musical. It's a regular gig, but once the run finishes it's back to finding the next.
 
Yeah, interesting topic, Pete, and I think I generally agree with your assessments. Inevitably, as with all things linguistic, the meaning will change a bit (sometimes quite a lot) depending on where exactly we are.

I know quite a few people who are seriously world-class musicians and spent years as full-time music professionals but switched to other careers for a variety of reasons, usually financial stability. They're still professional-caliber, and in some cases not just that, but seriously well-known and beloved internationally on their instruments. Even Lyle Mays was like that: he developed software later in life instead of touring since, from the little I know about it, he became understandably jaded with the music industry and genuinely interested in software.

So I find the term to be a bit squishy for those reasons. And I also have a pretty high (possibly unreasonable) standard for what "professional caliber" is... I've known a few full-timers in various cities who I've felt maybe shouldn't be. 😬 At least, I'd never tap them for any group, recording, or other project I were leading and producing.
 
I think this is the basis for an interesting discussion/debate.

My take is that a professional is someone who makes a living from playing. No other work. So in that case a couple of bucks or free meal is not it.

And of course there is semi-pro
Coming to party late.

I don't agree with that. On the basis of...why need it be their sole source of income ?

Why can't pro musicians have day jobs or moonlight ?

Because this definition negates half the musician population which gigs....and teaches.
All of this has already been commented on, so...apologies not saying anything new.

Then there are these folks:

reasonably mediocre musicians who do not bother presenting themselves well in performance but are excellent at schmoozing for gigs, oftentimes by undercutting the payscale of other bands.

So...they gig 'full time'. But that does not make them 'pro'. They throw together whatever musician friends are available for a given show, do not practice, just have everyone show up. Often in street clothes.
They do not try to engage with the audience at all. Sometimes they sit on their amplifiers while playing. Play forty minute sets, then take a 25 min break. They get to the ending of the song and then everyone looks at each other because nobody communicated how to end it. They do that for the entire night. Not like it happens first song then from thereon leader thinks 'ok lemme do something here so that doesn't happen again'

Play first set to an empty house. on final chorus of last tune first set, three tables walk in. They end tune and take their break anyway....instead of doing the obvious, professional thing...

You know these bands.

Yet bandleader manages six gigs/week, takes the larger cut of the pay, and that is his primary income.

Is that 'a professional' ?
 
Coming to party late.

I don't agree with that. On the basis of...why need it be their sole source of income ?

Why can't pro musicians have day jobs or moonlight ?

Because this definition negates half the musician population which gigs....and teaches.
Yeah, agreed. I don’t think that definition stands up well. How about a gigging player who paints during the day, and all of a sudden people discover their art and want to buy it..
Actually, Joni Mitchell?
 
The point being, and again all I am is reiterating others' replies.....my above example...is NOT of musicians acting professionally. Nor even thinking professionally.

They are acting like amateurs. Yet are able to derive sufficient income to make it their sole or primary income.
 
I don't agree with that. On the basis of...why need it be their sole source of income ?

Maybe it doesn't. But that is what I have mostly heard it mean often from musicians who call themselves semi-pro or weekend warriors because playing isn't their sole or main income. And when I was also working as a teacher I considered myself to be semi-professional.

I may well be wrong.
 
Maybe it doesn't. But that is what I have mostly heard it mean often from musicians who call themselves semi-pro or weekend warriors because playing isn't their sole or main income. And when I was also working as a teacher I considered myself to be semi-professional.

I may well be wrong.
No you aren't wrong....income derived is a primary yardstick, by most definitions....
 
They sound like professional musicians acting unprofessionally. Just like me in my example .
I'd argue they are amateurs somehow managing to get paid as professionals, yet not delivering what professionals should customarily deliver. IOW masquerading. Posers, etc....

Yet by the 'income' definition, they meet the term 'professional musician'

Again, gets back to the Duality implicit in the term....
 

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