Saxophones Windcraft WAS-110 Alto

[JayeNM]

I have alto tenor and curly sop from G4m. I busked the alto for several years, gigged the tenor occasionally and fought with the sop.

These were all the earlier incarnations based on a Yani. Mine are all retired now.

The sop was a reduced/return. It needed serious dremel modification to stop the keys clashing.

The alto and tenor needed regular, constant tweaking between playing.

I do my own tweaking, so no techs were involved, but I've read many posts about work being refused, out of hand, usually because the cost would be more than the worth of the instrument.

The current G4m horns are not the same as the ones I own. They're a copy of a different horn.

The beauty of the G4m sales model is the 30 day, no quibble, return policy. Keep a keeper. Return a lemon.

A second hand unit has no guarantee. A beginner, who unknowingly gets a lemon, gives up and sells it on, because playing it proves impossible, passes on the problem to the next cash strapped beginner who struggles thinking it's them.

I suppose it applies to any second hand horn.

Ok so that sounds like in general they were problematic....thx for your truthful view.

So again, a 'get what you paid for' scenario.

FWIW...a thirty day return policy on a new cheapo....not as good as it initially sounds, really. Like one can take advantage of it if, say, the horn arrives unplayable, or the tonality or intonation is horrid. But if those things initially are acceptable, then there still remains a fair chance that problems in regulation would not show themselves until after thirty days.

Agree with Steven...by virtue of fact that the design changed to asian knockoff Selmer...clearly G4M started sourcing from a different factory...which as @turf3 noted, can be another problem with cheapos...no way to trace lineage, no real identifiable factory standing behind their product.

 

[Stephen Howard]

Ok so that sounds like in general they were problematic....thx for your truthful view.

So again, a 'get what you paid for' scenario.

Umm, not really - that's just his experience with his horns - and what he hadn't paid for was a proper setup and ongoing professional maintenance. That's why I always say that a proper setup should be considered to be part of the purchase price. That applies to horns of any cost really (unfortunately).
That's why the Bauhaus and Academy/Jericho horns had a decent reputation - because the setup was included in the price.

]
Agree with Steven...by virtue of fact that the design changed to asian knockoff Selmer...clearly G4M started sourcing from a different factory...which as @turf3 noted, can be another problem with cheapos...no way to trace lineage, no real identifiable factory standing behind their product.

As far as the player's concerned that's largely the case - but within the industry the factories are known and in many cases they're pretty good with sorting out spares and suchlike. I still have a box of spares provided by the factory that made the Academy branded horns. Aside from a handful of screws I've never really found much use for them.

 

[Colin the Bear]

I did hammer the alto when I was busking for a living. 4 to six hours a day, 4 or 5 days a week, plus the odd solo gig and sitting in with local bands. It still played when I retired it. The nickel plate had worn through in places. Also several pads and corks were replaced. It got very dirty and looked like hell. The final straw was solder on a bell key guard letting go.

I bought a much older yas25.

 

[Stephen Howard]

I did hammer the alto when I was busking for a living. 4 to six hours a day, 4 or 5 days a week, plus the odd solo gig and sitting in with local bands. It still played when I retired it. The nickel plate had worn through in places. Also several pads and corks were replaced. It got very dirty and looked like hell. The final straw was solder on a bell key guard letting go.

I bought a much older yas25.

Not a bad run for a cheapo horn then.

 

[Colin the Bear]

I checked my accounts. G4m nickel alto bought 2012 retired 2022. £220.

 

[Stephen Howard]

I checked my accounts. G4m nickel alto bought 2012 retired 2022. £220.

That's not bad going even if it only had moderate use - but given the number of hours you put in every week that's quite spectacular.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Played in tune too. 😁

 

[JayeNM]

Umm, not really - that's just his experience with his horns - and what he hadn't paid for was a proper setup and ongoing professional maintenance. That's why I always say that a proper setup should be considered to be part of the purchase price. That applies to horns of any cost really (unfortunately).

Fair enuff, yes...as long as a cheapo doesn't need servicing more often than a more reputed brand, it could be worthwhile.

Again, here in US, my experience has been the most popular cheapos....do require more visits, thus negating the bargain price tags...

 

[Stephen Howard]

Lisa dropped in with the G4M and Jupiter altos this morning. The G4M turned out to be one of the Yani copies.
There was actually nothing really wrong with the G4M - a very, very slight leak on a couple of pads...and certainly not of sufficient size to make much, if any, difference to the overall response. And no regulation issues at all.
However...the action was rather on the low side, and in my pre-tweak playtest I felt that there was much more that could be eked out of the response.

The Jupiter was a very old 767, with the cutaway in the crook tenon sleeve for the top F#. Not their best ever model.
Plenty of leaks on the old beast - but by far the biggest problem was that the action was set way too high, making the tone quite brash and the tuning rather wild.
I did the repairs and lowered the action slightly - being mindful of the client's desire for a free-blowing horn. I also raised the action on the G4M, which really brought out its punch and clarity.

All of which leaves the client with a bit of a quandary because the G4M alto is now 'giving it large' - and has the advantage of a rather more ergonomic action. It also had another trick up its sleeve because the build quality was astonishingly good. I spent a good ten minutes poking, prodding and otherwise fiddling with keys - and the best that I could come up with is that there was a very slight wobble on the side Bb cup key. And only very slight.
We compared it to a midrange Chateau tenor that's in for a service - and the G4M beat it hands down for accuracy. I really don't think I've ever seen a better example.

So with both horns now giving of their best it'll be interesting to see which one wins out in the end - but I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if it turned out to be the G4M.