All profit supporting special needs music education and Help Musicians

M/Pieces - Ligs Bari Esprit, Esprit II, Yam4C, + El Cheapo Windcraft

DavidUK

Well-Known Member
Café Supporter
Messages
5,802
Locality
Near Lutterworth, Leics.
:)

Just tried all these out against each other using Buffet 400 Alto, MJ 2 1/2 reed and Buffet Crampon metal ligature.

The "El Cheapo" Windcraft is here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251158958064?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

The Yam4C is my usual MP, so compared to it the others sounded...

1/ Esprit round chamber

Liked this, and probably the closest sound to the Yam4C which also has a slightly rounded chamber.
Easy blow with no real thought having to be put into playing it.
Tighter fit on neck cork than the Yam.

2/ Esprit II square chamber

Slightly more edgy than the round chamber standard Esprit. More resistance and slightly harder work. A few bum notes, not sure why as the opening looks the same as the standard Esprit? Must be me, or maybe needs a softer reed.
Tighter fit on neck cork than the Yam.

3/ Windcraft cheapie square chamber

Loud, fairly raucous, and less direct sound, by which I mean I had to control the pitch as it was liable to go off. Having said that it was very flexible once I knew what was going on. Could be fun. Easier blow than the two Esprits. This has a similar but smaller square chamber to the Esprit II.
For £6 posted with WHITE GLOVES, neck strap, polishing cloth and cork grease you may be tempted. I was more so as I happened to have a £5 eBay voucher to use.
Same fit on neck cork as the Yam.

I could spend hours changing reeds and ligatures (not sure the latter makes any difference) to change this first opinion. Currently I'd rate them:
1st Esprit
2nd Yam 4C (probably as I'm used to it).
3rd Esprit II
4th Windcraft cheapie

Anyone else compared the two Esprits against each other and any similarly priced MPs?

:)
 

Chris

Well Known
Café Supporter
Messages
3,826
Locality
Manchester,England
David it might have been useful to add some kind of sound clip with each mouthpiece. Nice review though..

Chris..
 

DavidUK

Well-Known Member
Café Supporter
Messages
5,802
Locality
Near Lutterworth, Leics.
David it might have been useful to add some kind of sound clip with each mouthpiece. Nice review though..

Chris..
If I had the know-how, and the bottle! One day I'll consider myself good enough. :w00t:
 

TomMapfumo

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,215
Locality
Skabertawe, South Wales
If you send me the round chamber Esprit for a loan I'll do a comparison. I much prefer the Esprit II to the 4C and find it a very easy blow personally. I have also tried the normal Windcraft cheapie and liked it quite a lot. Wouldn't describe the one I played as Raucous and preferred it to a Rico Royal B5. Time you invested in a decent mouthpiece - I could lend you one for a swap!
 

Ads

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,314
Locality
North West UK
I prefer the Esprit-II to the 4C on alto (Why Yamaha throw this beginner piece in with 62s is a mystery to me but at least I had it to compare) also prefer the Esprit-1 on Sop to the 4C though the tip gap is still narrow (probably between a 4 and a 5 at a guess) .
 

jonf

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,740
Locality
Betelgeuse
I ordered a couple of the Windcraft cheapies out of curiosity, and also so I can use them to sell saxes as 'with a new mouthpiece'. Came this morning, very good service. Haven't had a chance to blow them yet, but they look pretty poor, with an uneven tip. Will try later and report back.
 

TomMapfumo

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,215
Locality
Skabertawe, South Wales
I prefer the Esprit-II to the 4C on alto (Why Yamaha throw this beginner piece in with 62s is a mystery to me but at least I had it to compare) also prefer the Esprit-1 on Sop to the 4C though the tip gap is still narrow (probably between a 4 and a 5 at a guess) .

The Bari Esprit soprano is 0.058"
 

Colin the Bear

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,745
Locality
Burnley bb9 9dn
I've tried all the regular candidates for sop, and the esprit is by far the best for me.

(graftonite B5, metalite M7, delacole 5, Yam 4c, selmer S80.)
 

jonf

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,740
Locality
Betelgeuse
I ordered a couple of the Windcraft cheapies out of curiosity, and also so I can use them to sell saxes as 'with a new mouthpiece'. Came this morning, very good service. Haven't had a chance to blow them yet, but they look pretty poor, with an uneven tip. Will try later and report back.

Distinctly unimpressive looking, lightweight plastic, tip and rails not looking good, uneven all round. Miniscule tip opening. However, it actually played OK. Needed a hard reed to play properly, which I didn't have to hand, but tone was OK. Certainly not raucous, but not characterless either. The sling it came with was perfectly serviceable, so in all a pretty good deal for six quid delivered. Dunno what the white gloves were for, apart from their use, they would be a bit tight on my eleven year old, let alone on an adult.
 

Ads

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,314
Locality
North West UK
. Miniscule tip opening. However, it actually played OK. Needed a hard reed to play properly,.

Sounds like a 4C wannabe for beginners then ? , OK at the price I guess but with the price of the Esprit (£15 ish) and especially the Hanson Bari piece at £10 not worth the saving unless you need the white gloves to look like the guy out of the Pirahnas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8U-I0RH8Cc
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Saxdiva

Older, wiser, should know better....
Messages
533
Locality
Burgess Hill, West Sussex
Sounds like a 4C wannabe for beginners then ? , OK at the price I guess but with the price of the Esprit (£15 ish) and especially the Hanson Bari piece at £10 not worth the saving unless you need the white gloves to look like the guy out of the Pirahnas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8U-I0RH8Cc

I think the reason the 4c continues to be recommended by lots of tutors (including those that work in places like sax.co.uk, Dawkes, Howarths, and so can be abreast of trends, rather than being considered out of date) and is still so popular is that the yams play consistently and are manufactured well, whereas some other cheapies can be hit and miss. This gives beginners the best possible chance when they're starting out as thy don't have to compensate for a less well finished piece. It's not about tone (although there's nothing wrong with the 4C other than the matter of preference) it's about having confidence in equipment.
 

TomMapfumo

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,215
Locality
Skabertawe, South Wales
I think that Yamaha is very shrewdly marketed. Why else do they have trumpets from Series 1 to Series 2, to Series 4 before the professional level Series 6 and even then the Series 8. Perfectly possible to start with a pro quality trumpet straight away and not have to trade used instruments 3 or more times, but people are gullible and pay hundreds more than they need for no good reason.
There are many very good beginner mouthpieces out there, not all as well marketed as the Yamaha 4C. The high quality of other mouthpieces is rarely mentioned, only the poor quality of some supplied with a new instrument - usually with no name on them. I think that Yamaha is a well marketed company that can tend to dominate/monopolise certain economies, but I do not think that mouthpieces is a strong point of theirs, in the sax world, and less so in the trumpet world, the trombone world and several others.
 

altissimo

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,349
Locality
leicester
it's probably easier for Yamaha dealers to order a bunch of 4C's from Yamaha than to fiddle about ordering better mouthpieces from Runyon, Bari etc - especially since the guy from Yamaha probably phones every month and asks 'em what they need.
A lot of sax shops don't carry a wide range of different mouthpieces, just the usual suspects - Selmer, Otto Link, Meyer, Vandoren and Yamaha. If you ask why they don't stock any other brands they tell you that there's not much demand for them. Many shops who're 'authorised dealers' for some brands don't actually have any in stock
Sax teachers probably recommend Yamaha gear 'cos it's a known quantity and a 4C isn't going to be problematic, so one less potential issue to worry about.
I can imagine that even those shops that do stock and recommend Bari Esprits often get parents saying 'oh, but the teacher told us to get a Yamaha'
 

TomMapfumo

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,215
Locality
Skabertawe, South Wales
Good thoughts. Takes us back to the point that SaxDiva made about teachers not necessarily being up to date with equipment. Most of my previous teachers were only aware of what they were told when they were pupils - hence certain mouthpieces appeared from their drawers very regularly - Yamaha 4C's, Bach 7C's & 12C's, Selmer S80 C*'s and the usual suspects.

At least Trevor James has seen the light and provide Bari Esprit's with their student saxes - Classic and Alphasax. Surprisingly many shops now seem to stock the Bari Esprit mouthpieces.
 

TomMapfumo

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,215
Locality
Skabertawe, South Wales
I've just done a comparison of the Bari Esprit Round and Square chambered alto mouthpieces:

I much preferred the sound of the square chamber (Esprit II). It did seem to have a smaller chamber
and a slimmer profile. For me it produced a crisper, clearer sound - sounded probaly more contemporary
and livelier. The round chamber sounded ok but did remind me a little of the Bari Esprit Tenor. They both
produced a duller sound, slightly darker and with less clarity. They both lack verve. I imagine that some
traditionalists may prefer the round chamber with its dated sound, and I can imagine lots of players preferring
the square chamber and its potentially broader range of sounds, jazz, blues as well more modern music.
 

Colin the Bear

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,745
Locality
Burnley bb9 9dn
I think I'll have to invest in an alto esprit II, just for the facility of a modern sound when I feel that way inclined.
 

Colin the Bear

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,745
Locality
Burnley bb9 9dn
Alto esprit II came today. I was surprised how loud it is. Needs a harder reed than I usually use and suits american cut too. I'll be able to use up the box of orange rico that came by mistake. A very easy blowwith a versatile sound.

I ordered a clarinet piece too. It has a smaller square chamber than the alto. It's very nice up at the top and very woody sounding at the bottom. I think I'll be using it as my main piece. Another easy blower.
 

Ads

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,314
Locality
North West UK
I found that the Esprit-II needs a harder reed, it`s pretty narrow gap like a 4C only a bit wider so when a 2.5 rico gets wet it chokes up (though I`m still pretty new to Alto) . I`d Really like a 6* version of the same piece .

Nice to see the clarinet piece has a square chamber too, what put me off ordering it is the narrow gap of the Esprit range, I play with a Vandoren B45 , found the 5RV and stock pieces like the Yam 6C too narrow .....

I wish they`d do the sop piece in square chamber, it`s superb as it is, probably be even better with a square chamber, maybe they thought it`d be "too focussed" for a sop if it was ? . the Yani 7 Metal I have has a perfect tip opening and sounds superb but being a metal (so tiny) I`m having Embouchure problems ..

Where`s the Tenor Esprit-II ? no one who's posted seems to like the Esprit in Tenor so you`d think they`d get a wriggle on and Square chamber it ! , even the Yam 4C has a mostly square chamber
 

TomMapfumo

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,215
Locality
Skabertawe, South Wales
Has to be the Windcraft Etude HR on Tenor, unfortunately, if you've got £52 and can contact Dawkes:http://www.dawkes.co.uk/accessories/windcraft+ebonite+tenor+sax+mouthpiece+-amw602.html . Brilliant piece!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

SaxMart

Member
Messages
136
Locality
Kent England
Good thoughts. Takes us back to the point that SaxDiva made about teachers not necessarily being up to date with equipment. Most of my previous teachers were only aware of what they were told when they were pupils - hence certain mouthpieces appeared from their drawers very regularly - Yamaha 4C's, Bach 7C's & 12C's, Selmer S80 C*'s and the usual suspects.

At least Trevor James has seen the light and provide Bari Esprit's with their student saxes - Classic and Alphasax. Surprisingly many shops now seem to stock the Bari Esprit mouthpieces.
Hi Tom I recently bought a new TJ SR EVO tenor, do you happen to know if the supplied m/p is a Bari esprit it does seem a very easy blow compared to the Yam 5C I used in the shop? I emailed TJ and they said the tip opening is 0.085 which doesn't seem right to me since a 5C is 0.070. the reason I ask is I have a Bari eprit on my alto and love it but I don't want to waste money buying one for my tenor if it's exactly the same just with a TJ logo
 

Popular Discussions

London
Paris
New York
Los Angeles
Sydney
Moscow
New Delhi
Top Bottom