Which soprano for my daughter

davison100 · Jun 20, 2007

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Pete Thomas · Jun 20, 2007

The Walstein is excellent. I have used one on TV recording sessions and it is not the same thing as the cheap ones on ebay you may have heard bad reports about. Gear4music are also OK, but not in the same league as Walstein IMO, and you get a very friendly helpful and personal service from Woodwind & Brass. Although basically an online shop, you can actually arrange to visit in person to try the instrument.

Linky Lee · Jun 20, 2007

I can't say much about the soprano's but I love my Walstein tenor saxophone which I rate as a professional level instrument.

Simon · Jun 20, 2007

Pete - I appreciate your advice here cos you've played the instrument, but the score card is starting to look like this :

Selmer Paris, Yamaha, Yanagisawa, any other established brand : inconsistent, expensive, poor after sales service
Walstein, Hanson, Fishy, Ulovelongtime : consistent, cheap, great after sales service

Let's be honest here, ANY brand can be variable, surely that's why you play em before you buy. After sales service? Well, the Yamaha Z series alto that Stephen Howard reviews on his site is mine - in fact I bought it in the US and got it replaced by Yamaha UK. Now that's service!

Soprano saxes in particular are purchases that need to be made carefully because in my experience, the smaller the sax, the greater potential for problem intonation. And nowhere is the line 'you get what you pay' more applicable IMO.

Simon

jambo · Jun 20, 2007

I have a curved Elkhart and its great

Simon · Jun 20, 2007

Sorry Davidson100... to answer your question :

I'd recommend reading up on Stephen Howard's Woodwind site about sopranos, his reviews and his general advice.

As he says, the greatest obstacle playing soprano is tuning and in my view, especially for a young player to the instrument, you're best getting the highest quality instrument you can, because her results will depend on it in the long term.

The point of my earlier rant (sent a few minutes before that train home) was alluding to a similar post that appeared a few weeks ago, which brought out all sorts of bias and brand endorsements.

I think Stephen's advice will put alot of this in to perspective.
Cheers
Simon

Pete Thomas · Jun 20, 2007

Believe me or not the Walstein is the most in tune soprano I've played, but I can't compare to a Yamaha because I've never played a yamaha soprano, but I'd still recommend one highly as I know Yamaha make great horns and I totally believe Simon about their after sales service. I'm sure they are great. (I'm not sure where the inconsistency of brands like Yamaha and Yanagisawa came from).

I have nothing at all against any of the established and expensive brands really, it's just that they cost a lot more and these days its not necessary to spend that much for a great horn.

jambo · Jun 20, 2007

simon wrote:
Selmer Paris, Yamaha, Yanagisawa, any other established brand : inconsistent, expensive, poor after sales service
Walstein, Hanson, Fishy, Ulovelongtime : consistent, cheap, great after sales service

I was very amused when I read that!
😛

Jules · Jun 20, 2007

Antigua winds sopranos are great- nicely in-tune, an easy blow, all in all great value for money. They're pretty much yanagisawa 901 clones- the silver version in particular can really hold it's own against the pro end horns. Be a bit careful with soprano moutphieces- they're rather less forgiving of the 'bung any mouthpiece on 'em and they'll sound ok' school of playing. Selmer C*s are a good safe bet, though i'm a bit of a fan of the Ebonite Yamaha sop mouthpieces...

stephen_howard · Jun 20, 2007

That reminds me...I really must update the soprano review intro page...

The situation regarding soprano saxes has changed beyond recognition in the last couple of years.
Used to be that the issue with cheap sopranos was not so much what they could do, but what they couldn't do. It's completely the other way round now.

As regards recommendations, I've seen, worked on and played models by Venus, Gear4music, Academy, Helmke, Bently and Walstien - and I'd happily buy any of these models.
The Walstien in particular is very nice...a bit pricier than the rest, but a bit better built too.
The Antiguas are good too these days - much better build quality - but rather more expensive.

Whatever you get, don't forget to budget for a decent mouthpiece ( I believe the Walstien comes with a David Hite piece...which will be excellent ) - the standard Yamaha piece as noted by Nachoman is a good bet for the money.

If Pete Thomas's recommendation isn't enough, check out another Pete ( Effamy ) - another seriously good player who's using a Chinese soprano ( an Academy ).

Regards,

philthd · Jun 21, 2007

the perceived wisdom always used to be that good brands were always good and cheap brands were always bad.

but now, in trying to convey the message that things just arent as simple as that any more, people end up over-praising the newer brands or over-knocking the established brands so it seems like they are saying the opposite.

its wise advice to not buy a horn youve never had in your gob - and to make sure you get it set up well

davison100 · Jun 21, 2007

Hi
I agree with the comments about trying the instrument, but how practical is it for a beginner to know what is good? My inclination at present is to try and get a Walstien on a sale or return basis so the sax teacher can have a good look at it and I can return it if he is not happy.

philthd · Jun 21, 2007

have a look round the forum - loads of people own hansons and say good things about them, though ive never heard one of their sops mentioned.

my wife's old alto was an elkhart and it was, as you say, kinda ok in a fairly uninspiring way (considerably less playable than my beloved lowend yamaha to my hands and ears - and the tone of the "oh" when you tell a repairer youre bringing one in is telling) so if, as in the opinions of pete and others, walstein make pro quality saxes you can reasonably expect them to be a huge leap better than the elkhart

and most good places where you cant playtest have decent return periods in which you can get the opinions of as many people you trust as possible.

remember, though, that good is not an absolute
and that even a really good horn out of adjustment can play like a dog

stephen_howard · Jun 21, 2007

The key phrase is "He does not have much experience with the newer cheap instruments".
That's the rub really - and I can't say I blame people for being hesitant, given what passed for cheap instruments in the past ( I'm thinking Parrot, Lark, Corton, B&M Champion etc. ), but times change, and so do manufacturing techniques and manufacturing centres.
In fact, it's moving so fast that earlier this year I decided that it wasn't enough to sit here and wait for new horns to come by the workshop - I got off my chair and went to the Frankfurt trade show to see for myself how things were evolving. I was more than impressed.

As regards the Elkhart - forget it...there's simply no point in paying extra for a name these days ( at least in the budget dept. - a lesson Conn-Selmer learned quite quickly ), and as for Hansons - well, they're fine if you stick to the basic models...if you go for the more expensive models you can often do better with other brands - such as Antigua etc.

As it happens, I put my own money where my mouth is and bought myself an Ultra-Cheap tenor as a backup for my trusty Yamaha...it's unbranded, but from the same factory as the Walstiens.
I keep in it the boot of the car for those times when I turn up at a pub and find a band playing...or for rehearsals. I've even used it on a couple of gigs and it's been absolutely fine.

The current state of play is that any of the recommended Ultra Cheap horns are at least as good as the basic Jupiters, and in many cases a great deal better - and for half the price.

Most sellers of such instruments give a no-quibble money-back guarantee...so it's perfectly feasible to try one out for a couple of weeks. Academy horns come with three weeks grace.

Regards,

bobk · Jun 22, 2007

Whaen I got my Walstein I didn't have the experience or confidence to evaluate a sax whether it was a 'name' instrument or some Chinese mystery. Playing it wouldn't have been much help as a 4-month beginner, especially if it was anything other than an alto, which was all I'd played (I'd played a Selmer Mk VI alto quite a bit in addition to my own no-name Chinese - but still not much help at my stage). But, as Stephen say, they're sold on sale or return so why not do as I did and get your daughter's teacher to try it (for fun don't tell them how much it costs). My teacher played mine (Walstein tenor) and was v. complimentary. I didn't return the sax. I remain very happy with it. One day I might buy an expensive name sax but not, I suspect, for many years.

cheers,

Bob

ps - I'm pretty sure my daughter and I wouldn't be enjoying playing sax if good cheap Chinese saxes didn't exist - even five or six hundred quid for a yamaha would have been a bit too much for an exploratory punt - Simon take note, I don't see a future for your business if everyone has to start with a Selmer or a Yani or even a Yamaha...

davison100 · Jun 25, 2007

Hi again
We went in one of our local music shops at the weekend and my daughter had a blow on a Trevor James Artemis straight and curved sop. After a few minutes she was able to get the some range as she can on the alto, her mum a clarinet player had no problems at all. They both decided that the straight sop was more comfortable to hold, perhaps easier to blow and sounded as good. I think we will be buying two mouthpieces and they will be fighting over the sop. My question is how does the Artemis compare with the Academy, Walstien, or Hanson.

Regards

Steve

Pjonah · Jun 25, 2007

I'd say the Walstein speaks for it self, if Pete has used it already on commercial work, then that would be reason enough for me, but if you can maybe get along and try it first.

TJJ saxes generally are reasonable good as are Hansons, its up to the individual taste really, but there are no real duffers amoungst them, IMO.

Simon

Bobby G · Jun 25, 2007

I have an Artemis soprano, which I believe is identical to Jambo's, i.e. it's the same horn with different engraving, and it's a baby curved one rather than straight - I find these more comfortable to play, and I like the way the sound comes up at you from the bell. I have no trouble getting it to play in tune, and had no more trouble with the Antigua straight sop I used to own.

These Walsteins keep popping up, and seem to have been well-received. Do they do a bari yet?

Cheers, Bob

greg_strange · Jun 26, 2007

I have been thinking about getting another sax for the last couple of years and with Pete's enthusiasm for his Walstein soprano and Stephen Howard's recommendation this might be the way to go.
I did a quick calculation on the store's website and cost to purchase and send it to NZ is GBP314.47p (no VAT and GBP60.00 3 day shipping fee) which is just under NZD$1,000.00, which is pretty good when you consider a Yamaha YSS475 soprano retails for about NZD$4,000.00 (approx. GBP1,300.00) and a pro Yani is about NZD$5,000.00 to NZD6,000 (approx. GBP1,700 to GBP2,000). The only reservations I have is how securely packaged are they when shipping and NZ custom charges this end. Anybody had any experience purchasing saxes/instruments from abroad/overseas?
Regards,
Greg Strange.