Saxophone beginners When to use the Bis key on saxophone

[sushidushi]

I think my whole career on saxophone could be summed up by fumbling around for the next note.

You forget that we have heard your excellent playing and therefore know that to be untrue.

 

[BigMartin]

My teacher puts my left hand on the desk and hits it with a large lump hammer if I do this. So I don't.

Not too keen on the "there's only one correct way" approach. My teacher has encouraged (no more than that) me to use the bis key and says he personally hardly ever uses the side Bb. He's a pretty decent player:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTkoSn9AR1s

Me? I use bis, side Bb and long Bb. But I find bis the most useful (for me!) and the rolling thing is very useful if you change your mind about what's coming next.

 

[saxofón]

bis is better... cant use side, so used to bis

 

[kevgermany]

My teacher puts my left hand on the desk and hits it with a large lump hammer if I do this. So I don't.

This is the trouble with old school fixations. Just take the hammer away and do what feels best.

 

[sushidushi]

I suppose, ideally, we'd all learn all the alternate fingerings and play them all equally comfortably. I think I need to practise the scale with one flat in it to get used to using the Bis key. I find it really awkward, but I'm sure it'd be a good investment, even though I know I'll never be an especially good player.

 

[kevgermany]

I suppose, ideally, we'd all learn all the alternate fingerings and play them all equally comfortably. I think I need to practise the scale with one flat in it to get used to using the Bis key. I find it really awkward, but I'm sure it'd be a good investment, even though I know I'll never be an especially good player.

Depends partly on the sax, but maost saxes have the bis key touch close enough to the B key touch so that it's easy. Just slide your left index finger down a little so that when you press it, both keys go down together. It's easier than remembering to play the 'standard' fingering. However Jbtsax has made some good points about flipflop (with which I agree) and it comes down to picking the best/easiest fingering for a specific piece/note sequence.

What I find really difficult is having to play Bb 2 ways or more in the same phrase, but often it's the best way.

 

[aldevis]

I have always taught that 1-2 + side is the "regular" fingering for Bb or if you will, the "default" fingering. It is the most practical fingering when Bb is preceded by A or Ab and followed by C or Cb (B). This makes it the smoothest fingering in the F, Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, Gb, and Cb major scales. It is also the smoothest fingering in the chromatic scale.

I would like to add that long B is often hard to setup, it sounds different, and many musicians simply disconnect it (same on clarinet, for long Eb/Bb).

On Rasher's daily exercises (132?) he often marks long Bb, but it also works with different fingerings.

 

[sushidushi]

Depends partly on the sax, but maost saxes have the bis key touch close enough to the B key touch so that it's easy. Just slide your left index finger down a little so that when you press it, both keys go down together. It's easier than remembering to play the 'standard' fingering. However Jbtsax has made some good points about flipflop (with which I agree) and it comes down to picking the best/easiest fingering for a specific piece/note sequence.

What I find really difficult is having to play Bb 2 ways or more in the same phrase, but often it's the best way.

It is very close on mine. I didn't mean that it was difficult physically, more that I have rarely used the bis key, so don't think to use it. I hope that practising scales will help to create sufficient finger muscle memory that it won't feel odd to use any of the usual fingerings.

 

[Ivan]

I would like to add that long B is often hard to setup, it sounds different, and many musicians simply disconnect it

Out of interst do you mean physically disconnect the link on the instrument or mentally disconnect from the need to use long B flat?

And if it's a physical disconnect why do it? Are some people unable to lose the long Bflat urge once learned or does the disconnect allow different effects using the RH keys when playing B natural?

 

[jbtsax]

I would like to add that long B is often hard to setup, it sounds different, and many musicians simply disconnect it (same on clarinet, for long Eb/Bb).

In regulating the lower stack of the saxophone the bis is commonly the last adjustment that is made. Ifall of the pads are seated and regulated properly (they close together) the bis adjustment is quite simple---especially on newer instruments with an adjusting screw. Even the bridge keys on the clarinet are easily adjusted by adding cork or tech cork if it has fallen off and/or bending the upper arm with smooth flat nose pliers. All it takes is a little patience and a strip of cigarette paper to use as a "feeler gauge". In either case, "disconnecting" the mechanism is not a wise choice under any circumstances IMO.

 

[Ivan]

In regulating the lower stack of the saxophone the bis is commonly the last adjustment that is made. Ifall of the pads are seated and regulated properly (they close together) the bis adjustment is quite simple---especially on newer instruments with an adjusting screw. Even the bridge keys on the clarinet are easily adjusted by adding cork or tech cork if it has fallen off and/or bending the upper arm with smooth flat nose pliers. All it takes is a little patience and a strip of cigarette paper to use as a "feeler gauge". In either case, "disconnecting" the mechanism is not a wise choice under any circumstances IMO.

Thanks very much for the info

I think my motto ought to be: So much to learn, so little time

 

[Colin the Bear]

I'm looking for more connections not less. A transpose key would be good. Another octave key would be nice. Oh and a growl key and a pitch bend wheel......

 

[jbtsax]

I'm looking for more connections not less. A transpose key would be good. Another octave key would be nice. Oh and a growl key and a pitch bend wheel......

All of those can be accomplished by the "nut" behind the mouthpiece.

 

[aldevis]

Out of interst do you mean physically disconnect the link on the instrument or mentally disconnect from the need to use long B flat?

I have seen clarinets with the piece of metal removed. On saxophone, the little screw that closes the Bb key with the RH is just kept well loose. I don't like the feel of it, but excellent players do it. It is just one less regulation to make.