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I'd like a rounded pearl inlay on my Bb/Bis key

SopJob

Member
Messages
78
Hi there,

I think I'd be more comfortable with a rounded (convex) pearl inlay on the Bb/Bis key of my soprano (rather than the concave one that is there).

I guess that this is an easy job.

How much will the replacement cost me (roughly)?
Is it a problem to find an inlay in the right size?
Is there a risk that the replacement come off unexpectedly while I am playing?

Thanks in advance for answering this one.
 

griff136

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,048
Hi there,

I think I'd be more comfortable with a rounded (convex) pearl inlay on the Bb/Bis key of my soprano (rather than the concave one that is there).

I guess that this is an easy job.

How much will the replacement cost me (roughly)?
Is it a problem to find an inlay in the right size?
Is there a risk that the replacement come off unexpectedly while I am playing?

Thanks in advance for answering this one.
If you measure the size in mm of the current pearl you have on your sax and let me know the size if I have one that size I'll post it to you.

You are better of glueing the new replacement with epoxy glue.
 

SopJob

Member
Messages
78
Old pearl inlay wedged in?

Hi griff,

thanks for your reply. I took a closer look at it yesterday. I am not sure whether the current inlay has beveled edges and is thus held by the likewise beveled rim to ensure that the inlay will always be kept in place. That would mean that it cannot be taken out without either destroying the inlay or breaking up the rim (see figure A in the attachment). Do you know perhaps if this is the case? The sax is a Yanagisawa S-981 (straight soprano).

Certainly one does not want to damage the rim. If I destroy the inlay, will it be a hard job to scrape all the crumbs out, especially if you take into account that the bottom of the inlay is glued to the metal? How do you go about it?

I assume that the replacement would be a straight fit (see figure B in the attachment). How would you assess the risk? If it comes off every 5 years or so because the glue gets old, I think can live with thank.

I hope that I don't bother you with too many questions.

Regards,

Frank.




If you measure the size in mm of the current pearl you have on your sax and let me know the size if I have one that size I'll post it to you.

You are better of glueing the new replacement with epoxy glue.
 

Attachments

rhysonsax

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,381
Sorry to butt in here ....

It depends how important the look is to you, as opposed to the feel and function.

I would be tempted to do this with a filler keeping the existing concave pearl in place, at least in the first instance. I have used some two-part epoxy to make a left hand thumbrest for one of my saxes and that worked really well. I know that Steve Howard has used some stuff called Sugru to make custom key risers and it seems great stuff: http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk/HandyHints/key_risers.htm

Rhys
 

thomsax

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,807
When I replaceS a "pearl" I useD a "Pearl Holder Closing Die", To close a metal holder around the "pearl" . From my short career as saxtech!! Maybe a job for a tech?It's a pretty sax .... .

View attachment 652
 

SopJob

Member
Messages
78
Griff,
thanks for the kind offer. I am still hesitating.
I might get back to you when I've decided to do it.


If you measure the size in mm of the current pearl you have on your sax and let me know the size if I have one that size I'll post it to you.

You are better of glueing the new replacement with epoxy glue.
 

Stephen Howard

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,959
Sorry to butt in here ....

It depends how important the look is to you, as opposed to the feel and function.

I would be tempted to do this with a filler keeping the existing concave pearl in place, at least in the first instance. I have used some two-part epoxy to make a left hand thumbrest for one of my saxes and that worked really well. I know that Steve Howard has used some stuff called Sugru to make custom key risers and it seems great stuff: http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk/HandyHints/key_risers.htm

Rhys

I don't think Sugru would be up to it - that Bis touchpiece is subject to quite a lot of torque (I'm thinking in terms of the angle at which it approaches). You'd likely push it off.
I'd mod it with JB Weld.
This is a hard-setting two-part resin (rather like Araldite) which sets as tough as steel.
Mix a suitable portion up and carefully spoon a drop onto the Bis touchpiece. Heat it gently with a hair dryer or a spotlamp - this will make it runny. Spoon a small blob onto the Bis pearl and then turn the horn over and rest it so that the pearl faces directly downwards. This will allow gravity to help the resin form a smooth dome. Keep an eye on it over the next few hours...if it gets too domed, turn the horn back up for a while.
It won't be a colour match (it sets dark grey).

There is a slight problem with modding the Bis pearl in this fashion, and that's that it raises the height of the touchpiece. You might then find that your forefinger (on the B pearl) sits lower than the top of the Bis touchpiece. As you roll your finger forward you'll effectively rolls into a wall - in which case you're back where your started, or even slightly worse off.
If in doubt, experiment with a bit of Blu_tack or Plasticine first.

Regards,
 
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gladsaxisme

Try Hard Die Hard
Subscriber
Messages
3,409
Best of luck I'm a bit surprised you would prefer convex to concave
 
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Stephen Howard

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,959
Best of luck I'm a bit surprised you would prefer convex to concave
If you ever get the chance to try out a Borgani you'll understand why a domed Bis Bb touchpiece is a godsend. The major plus point is that it automatically removes the ridge that you get with a concave touchpiece.
It also does away with any chance of 'Bis bite'...where you roll your finger forward and it gets pinched between the edge of the Bis pearl and the B key. Ouch!

Regards,
 

gladsaxisme

Try Hard Die Hard
Subscriber
Messages
3,409
Hi Stephen thanks for that info, you can learn something every day can't you. It's a little surprising isn't that the manufacturers don't automatically supply them that way, especially the top end stuff...john
 

griff136

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,048
+1 for the Borgani domed bis key, the handful of borganis I've seen had a brass bis touchpiece very comfortable.
 

Stephen Howard

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,959
Hi Stephen thanks for that info, you can learn something every day can't you. It's a little surprising isn't that the manufacturers don't automatically supply them that way, especially the top end stuff...john
I agree, it's such a good idea that I don't know why it's not a standard fitment....like rollers on the spatula keys or an articulated G#.
I think sometimes manufacturers get stuck in their ways, or perhaps continue with what they have out of bloody-mindedness. I mean, who'd want a round key pearl on the front top F key after playing a horn fitted with a teardrop touchpiece? And yet they still make 'em like that.

Regards,
 

saxyman

Member
Messages
267
On my Series II Selmer Tenor I find the Bis key is too low to what I am used to. It sits quite low between the B & C and takes a bit of finding.
What in the view of others is a good solution, I fail to see how it can be adjusted and have no desire to bend anything "aggghhh!!!!".
I have been advised that one way would be to plant a circular piece of cork on top of the inlay. Apart from looking naff, I am concerned it could easily fall off. Any advice please.
 

BigMartin

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,904
On my Series II Selmer Tenor I find the Bis key is too low to what I am used to. It sits quite low between the B & C and takes a bit of finding.
What in the view of others is a good solution, I fail to see how it can be adjusted and have no desire to bend anything "aggghhh!!!!".
I have been advised that one way would be to plant a circular piece of cork on top of the inlay. Apart from looking naff, I am concerned it could easily fall off. Any advice please.
The gap between the B and Bb bis touchpieces on my tenor is a little wide, as pointed out by my teacher. He suggested I might want to think about having the B touchpiece lowered a bit sometime. Might be easier than trying to move the bis.
 

saxyman

Member
Messages
267
The gap between the B and Bb bis touchpieces on my tenor is a little wide, as pointed out by my teacher. He suggested I might want to think about having the B touchpiece lowered a bit sometime. Might be easier than trying to move the bis.
I am not to sure about lowering the B key as this would put it lower than the C & G not what I really would like. So I have come up with an idea that I obtain (if possible from where?) another button which I can grind down to approx 1mm then finish off on a glass plate with grinding compound so that its nice and flat, remove the existing button and glue the new spacer underneath and then replace it. My concern is how easy is it to remove the existing one without damaging the cup. Any advice or experience in the matter.
Thanks
 

Flipper2008

Member
Messages
116
I am not to sure about lowering the B key as this would put it lower than the C & G not what I really would like. So I have come up with an idea that I obtain (if possible from where?) another button which I can grind down to approx 1mm then finish off on a glass plate with grinding compound so that its nice and flat, remove the existing button and glue the new spacer underneath and then replace it. My concern is how easy is it to remove the existing one without damaging the cup. Any advice or experience in the matter.
Thanks
why not use a Mother of Pearl button, the type you sew onto clothes, Im sure there will be one just the right size to do the job. Once under the exisitng pearl who will know ?

Peace
 

BigMartin

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,904
I am not to sure about lowering the B key as this would put it lower than the C & G not what I really would like. So I have come up with an idea that I obtain (if possible from where?) another button which I can grind down to approx 1mm then finish off on a glass plate with grinding compound so that its nice and flat, remove the existing button and glue the new spacer underneath and then replace it. My concern is how easy is it to remove the existing one without damaging the cup. Any advice or experience in the matter.
Thanks
Ah, we seem to be talking at cross purposes. I was talking about "lowered" as in "moved towards the bell" ie closer to the bis touchpiece. I guess you were talking about height in terms of distance from the body of the sax. Sorry for any confusion.
 
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