Ligatures What Ligature do you prefer and why?

[Wonko]

Tenor: Rovner Star ligature on a Philtone Onyx HR
Soprano: Rovner Star ligature on a Yanigasawa HR
Bari: No-name (probably BG) fabric ligature on a Meyer HR
I like the Rovner ligatures because they are easy to use and keep my reeds in place. The one-screw type ligatures are better for me than the 2-screw ones because they are easier to use. The Star ligature is the cheapest Rovner, and they do the job.
I prefer fabric ligatures because the metal ligatures give a brighter sound. I don't like bright sounds.....

 

[Jeanette]

On sop currently using an absolute lig as it fits my PPT nicely. I think the idea is to leave it on the mouthpiece and slide the reed in and out but I often take mine off.

Jx

 

[jazzdoh]

The Star ligature is the cheapest Rovner, and they do the job.

I use the Rovner star lig on my backup alto piece a Runyon Quantum delrin, they are fine ligs.

 

[jazzdoh]

On sop currently using an absolute lig as it fits my PPT nicely. I think the idea is to leave it on the mouthpiece and slide the reed in and out but I often take mine off.

Jx

I did use Absolute ligs on alto and sop for many years but if I used a Legere reed with the Selmer Jazzflow it was at its maximum tightness and on sop when I changed recently to a Phil-tone mouthpiece the Absolute didn't fit.

 

[Jeanette]

I did use Absolute ligs on alto and sop for many years but if I used a Legere reed with the Selmer Jazzflow it was at its maximum tightness and on sop when I changed recently to a Phil-tone mouthpiece the Absolute didn't fit.

How are you finding the Phil tone, have fancied one 😊

 

[jazzdoh]

How are you finding the Phil tone, have fancied one 😊

Love it, used a vintage Bari HR for 25 years before buying the Phil-tone S/H on here.

 

[turf3]

I've been using Rovners since 1978 and have never felt they were "too stretchy". Just tighten the screw to a normal tightness.

Maybe I underestimate the difficulty some folks might have in tightening screws. As the child of Depression parents, I grew up using wrenches, screwdrivers, and doing all kinds of manual work, so "tighten it reasonably tight" has a meaning to me, that it might not, to someone who's always "called a professional" for that kind of thing.

But at any rate, if you've handled wrenches and screwdrivers, and you're familiar with how to tighten a screw so it's tight, but not snapping it off, tighten the single screw of a Rovner till it's "pretty tight - finger tight - but not crazy" and you'll be JUST FINE.

 

[jazzdoh]

I've been using Rovners since 1978 and have never felt they were "too stretchy". Just tighten the screw to a normal tightness.

Maybe I underestimate the difficulty some folks might have in tightening screws. As the child of Depression parents, I grew up using wrenches, screwdrivers, and doing all kinds of manual work, so "tighten it reasonably tight" has a meaning to me, that it might not, to someone who's always "called a professional" for that kind of thing.

But at any rate, if you've handled wrenches and screwdrivers, and you're familiar with how to tighten a screw so it's tight, but not snapping it off, tighten the single screw of a Rovner till it's "pretty tight - finger tight - but not crazy" and you'll be JUST FINE.

Part of the issue with the Selmer Jazzflow was that it's outside diameter was slightly smaller than my previous pieces so the absolute lig was at the end of its tightness, couple that with the Legere Reed which is thinner than a normal reed meant it wasn't an ideal paring.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I find HB ligatures, but none of the ones they show on their website have the little plate that yours does. Is that plate free floating, or is it soldered to one side?

It is soldered to one side. But it fits both reed and mouthpiece very nicely.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Does the HB perform like a two screw used the other way up?

Pic from the day the Bronze Berg arrived.
Took a new reed out of the box and
snapped the pic. 🧐
A LaVoz med from a box bought decades ago.

View attachment 30511

To my mind that doesn't fit and the reed is sitting off centre on the table.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Does the HB perform like a two screw used the other way up?

It may well do but looks like it’s designed for the plate to sit on the reed.

 

[lydian]

I've been using Rovners since 1978 and have never felt they were "too stretchy". Just tighten the screw to a normal tightness.

Maybe I underestimate the difficulty some folks might have in tightening screws. As the child of Depression parents, I grew up using wrenches, screwdrivers, and doing all kinds of manual work, so "tighten it reasonably tight" has a meaning to me, that it might not, to someone who's always "called a professional" for that kind of thing.

But at any rate, if you've handled wrenches and screwdrivers, and you're familiar with how to tighten a screw so it's tight, but not snapping it off, tighten the single screw of a Rovner till it's "pretty tight - finger tight - but not crazy" and you'll be JUST FINE.

I can definitely tighten a screw without professional help. Doesn’t change the fact that cloth/leather/pleather is more elastic than metal. I tested this dullness in tone when I got my first Rovner long ago (late 70s?). I did metal vs Rovner direct comparisons, and the difference was obvious. Screw was as finger tight as possible without deforming the reed. Never resorted to wrenches or calling in a professional. I refuse to use vice grips to put on a reed.

In any case, it is indeed fine, just not as good as metal. The idea that Rovner is darker than metal because I don't know how to tighten a screw is insulting and wrong. Maybe the stretchy thing just doesn't work as well as the rigid thing.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Doesn’t change the fact that cloth/leather/pleather is more elastic than metal.

I think that’s true, but I hope someone with more scientific knowledge than me can show me to be right or wrong: surely once a screw is tighten enough to cause some pressure, ie enough to hold the reed, it is irrelevant whether that pressure (or force?) is elastic or not.

Another way to think of this: if there is a 50kg weight on the floor with a rope attached, and I can lift it 22 inches, is that any different to the weight with a bungee attached and I lift it 22 inches?

 

[PiccoloPirate]

To my mind that doesn't fit and the reed is sitting off centre on the table.

One more issue, and you hit the trifecta.

 

[Colin the Bear]

I think that’s true, but I hope someone with more scientific knowledge than me can show me to be right or wrong: surely once a screw is tighten enough to cause some pressure, ie enough to hold the reed, it is irrelevant whether that pressure (or force?) is elastic or not.

Another way to think of this: if there is a 50kg weight on the floor with a rope attached, and I can lift it 22 inches, is that any different to the weight with a bungee attached and I lift it 22 inches?

Is this a scenario from Wily Coyote? Beep beep.

 

[turf3]

I think that’s true, but I hope someone with more scientific knowledge than me can show me to be right or wrong: surely once a screw is tighten enough to cause some pressure, ie enough to hold the reed, it is irrelevant whether that pressure (or force?) is elastic or not.

Another way to think of this: if there is a 50kg weight on the floor with a rope attached, and I can lift it 22 inches, is that any different to the weight with a bungee attached and I lift it 22 inches?

NO.

The force required is the same.

 

[turf3]

If you expect the torque versus angle curve to feel like a metal screw tightening a metal band, then you will experience a different feeling if you tighten a metal screw on a fabric band. The torque versus angle curve will be a lot flatter. Actually, for securing two parts together with a circular band, a flatter slope is better, because it means that small deviations in applied torque will give smaller deviations in band tension and clamping force. So a more flexible/stretchy ligature actually allows you to have a more consistent clamping force of reed to mouthpiece given the inevitable variations in hand tightening torque.

 

[turf3]

NO.

The force required is the same.

If it takes you 110 lbs of force to lift something, it takes 110 lbs to lift it. If the thing you're using is stiff, you'll have to stretch it less to achieve 110 lb of tension in the rope and lift the weight. If it's more stretchy, you'll have to raise the upper end of the cord more before the tension in it is 110 lb, but the tension will still be 110 lb when the weight comes off the floor.

 

[Pete Thomas]

The force required is the same.

If it takes you 110 lbs of force to lift something, it takes 110 lbs to lift it.

Yeh that’s what I’d assumed so the elasticity of a fabric lig is irrelevant,

 

[Ghr9204]

I think that’s true, but I hope someone with more scientific knowledge than me can show me to be right or wrong: surely once a screw is tighten enough to cause some pressure, ie enough to hold the reed, it is irrelevant whether that pressure (or force?) is elastic or not.

It would be a Physics I college course exercise. Just the spring range of metal, it's modulus of elasticity (resistance to stretching) is much greater. Why one doesn't need to torque down the screws on a metal lig hard, just snug. The same forces would be involved with say, a canvas material, only thing is it would stretch more before achieving the same force or "tightness".

However, that was a course I took in 1976. Since, had no need to use it. Maybe someone here with the background and theory fresh in their mind can chime in.

This is why the Rovner and Rovner-like ligs work quite well, probably accounts for their more recent popularity, especially certain models. Plus, they don't don't have a tendency to scratch rubber and plastic mouthpiece finishes, although over long use have rubbed the polished surfaces undeath dull on my mouthpieces.