Playing the saxophone What are the most common problems. Either for yourself or students if you teach?

[Pete Thomas]

I know what mine are (or were) what about yours?

Originally I think it was tuning but I probably wasn’t aware - which is another problem in itself.

Another one was finding my playing was inconsistent so it was difficult sometimes to pin down issues.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Students playing too tight and never achieving a truly open sound.

 

[Jeanette]

Tone and Timing always been an issue for me

 

[mizmar]

For me: timing.
No doubt.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Is that timing associated with reading or with being in time with other players? Two different issues there.

 

[turf3]

I don't teach, but I do give advice to young players fairly often. Also, I'm only involved in "popular music" - or we could call it African American improvised music; not classical saxophone music. So my perspective is all about that kind of music.

- Insufficient air. This is the single biggest issue I hear young students struggling with.
- Insufficient confidence - which is related to insufficient air. I suspect that the student who starts saxophone in fifth grade and has been told SHHHHH constantly from day one, simply tries to hide their sound and then when they need to blow, they don't have the confidence, or the habit of using air, to fill up with air and push it out with the diaphragm.

The thing is, if you have a good airstream and the confidence to use it, you can play quite softly; and you'll have a nice rich compelling tone both when playing softly and loudly; but you've got to get past that habit of taking wee little breaths and just barely blowing through the horn.

- Fear of improvising. I don't quite understand this, but again, I guess the years in band class where if you make a mistake, the director stops and drills the individual or the section till it gets right - gives people a habit of feeling like they must not make a mistake. Well, if you're going to improvise, you're going to make mistakes. When you start, it's going to sound bad; and as you practice improvisation and learn more things to do (and not to do), it'll sound better and better. But right now, I"m playing in a junior college rehearsal band, and not a one of the young players is willing to close their eyes and try to play a solo just based on their ears.

In my case, I had plenty of dots-bound music, reading reading reading, on piano and flute, but when I got my first saxophone, my whole intention was to play rock and roll and jazz (I hardly even knew what it was, but I knew I wanted to do it). So I more or less got a grasp of several major scales, and then I was playing along with records, and the radio, for hours on end. I had NO IDEA about chords, or scales, but I was just listening to the music and trying to make things that sounded good. Of course, after a while I realized that I needed to know more about what I was doing, and I started studying chords and scales and so on. But playing by ear was the first thing, and then the jazz theory stuff came later, in service to improvisation and playing by ear, to get better at it.

- Rhythmic weakness. I try to point out that you can play pretty much any damn thing but if you will play it rhythmically, it will generally sound good; whereas even really great melodic patterns that just kind of drift here and there, do not sound good. (I'm not talking about intentional stretching of the beat, or playing behind or on top of the beat; I'm talking about people who don't feel where the beat is.)

 

[mizmar]

Is that timing associated with reading or with being in time with other players? Two different issues there.

Reading or playing something learned by ear: innately or with metronome or rhythm app or backing accompaniment recording.
All have been a challenge. I've never played with other people - apart from choir... Wouldn't say anyone's timing is particularly tight there!
Now, I can normally get-it, for anything I learn, maybe with some methodical work with the metronom for fiddly bits...

 

[lydian]

Tone and Timing always been an issue for me

Yep, those seem to be the top issues for all beginners, including when I first started out. And it applies to all instruments. When I taught my own kids (violin and trombone), we worked on timing a lot. Working with a metronome is best but can be very frustrating. Encouraging young players to stick with it and avoid "practicing" their mistakes is key.

Tone development was a years long process. Long tones and listening were critical there. I never really had any instruction regarding tone myself other than my teachers telling me to try to sound good. None were able to tell me exactly how to do it other than work on fundamentals - air support, long tones, proper embouchure, etc. Luckily, everything clicked into place for me after playing a couple of years. It often never clicks with many players despite their best efforts, and I've never been able to figure out why.

 

[cappers]

I've been learning to play for nearly two years now. Pretty much daily solo practice, two hours a week band practice (plus a monthly gig or two), an hour's lesson per month, and now one-to-one mentoring from my band leader.

Despite some criticism here of my tone and playing, I feel I'm making some progress and feel confident and inspired to continue.

Originally I think it was tuning but I probably wasn’t aware - which is another problem in itself.

Yes, it has taken me a while to hear and adjust my intonation and play mostly in tune. I checked with a meter and surprisingly my average intonation is better on the alto than the tenor (Must be the PPT mpc!)

Students playing too tight and never achieving a truly open sound.

Another hurdle. It took quite a while for me to 'loosen up'. Playing the tenor has definitely improved my sound on the alto but the tenor needs more work. I know that for a long time my tone has been pinched. I thought it was embouchure related but after a lot of work on breath support and throat openess I realised that was the weak area. I'm putting a lot more air through now and do believe I'm sounding fuller and richer. I think the fear of upsetting the neighbours made me a bit hesitant to blow too strongly - equating more air with more volume - but I can play pretty softly now and that is only achievable with good breath control. Long tones have really helped me find the 'centre' of a note but still a lot more work to do for it to be consistent.

... and Timing always been an issue for me

Timing......I can keep in time with others but it's when reading I can stumble until I 'know' the piece i.e. have played it slowly and correctly a dozen or so times. Say a string of eighths, dotted eighths, sixteenths, eighths and sixteenths together - lem-on ade, pine app-le etc

Re improv, love it and is one of the reasons I want to play, to make my own music. Again I've been accused of 'noodling' and am working hard on this to make it more melodic and structured. Chord tones, rhythm, trying to keep it simple (quite hard not to play every note!). I do have a fairly good sense of rhythm (mother was a professional dancer in her youth).

Reading back, I think these are all common beginner issues.

One thing that has surprised me is I can now 'remember' a few songs without the dots, and I am beginning to play some stuff by ear. No big shakes but I think I can hear intervals etc much more than before and find it easier to find the next note without too much hunting and pecking. As mentioned in other threads, my neighbour is fairly tolerant but she has a lodger who isn't. Late middle aged ex Para, told me when I started he doesn't like jazz and often moans, 'do you have to play every *>$%^&! day'. Since he's jazz hating ex mil I thought he'd like something more martial, so I learned Colonel Bogey by ear. Took about a week and I play it quietly at the end of each session, now with a bit of improv.

Long post but an opportunity for a bit of self-reflection. I know I have a long long journey to become anywhere near a competent player, but when I look back to two years ago, I think I have achieved something. I have also enjoyed myself more than I ever expected.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Looks like an interesting thread, I've now added a poll which is public and allows up to four selections. I can add anything you suggest. Anything within reason and legal...

 

[mizmar]

One thing that has surprised me is I can now 'remember' a few songs

That could go in the poll. And I'd tick it.

I think musical memory is a thing; and needs developing - and some technique - and takes some work for late-starters.

 

[Pete Thomas]

That could go in the poll. And I'd tick it.

No sooner done than said. Your command is my wish.

 

[mizmar]

Toked!

Damn my timing!

 

[Wade Cornell]

My teaching goals have been visible on this site for quite some time and included "heated discussions". For those that have professional ambitions the goal of becoming an entertainer should be paramount. However many of the teaching paradigms are strictly focused on mechanistic issues and imitation. Acquiring basic skills is a necessity, however taking that to a degree where the only message to an audience is technical skill isn't much of a draw for audiences or demonstrating a well rounded musical personality.

Improvisation presents the opportunity to communicate in a very personal way and give your audience a creative experience. It is the ultimate challenge. Too often it is answered with technical displays, cliches, or "tribute" playing.

The ability to play by ear goes hand in hand with the ability to express yourself. It requires two ingredients: hearing a line to play, and the ability to deliver it. Simple to say, yet hard to do. It's a frustration that so few take up this challenge to make their instrument a personal voice.

 

[Digger2054]

My timing (syncopation especially) is weak. I've got to feel the pulse, I'm OK with a rhythm section/others, but on my own it goes out the window.

I don't see Rhythm as an option, but that too can be challenge, I still come across rhythms that stump me and I need to ponder.

I'm quite happy with my sound & tone, and have no issues looking a bit silly trying to improvise, chords & progressions I'm making slow progress with, but I think my lack of rhythm & timing don't help with making interesting solos.

 

[mizmar]

So here's another problem I have:

Every thing I play contains an (at least one) error. Not just that, but it moves around.
I spot a phrase where and error has shown up a couple of times, repeat the hell out of the phrase till the error has skuttled off, start from the top - and the bugger pops up somewhere else.
Sometimes it moves between pieces. One day the piece will be fine and by the next day the error will have snuck around the back corridors and transistors of the pad, and snuck in.
Sneaky things. Sometimes they hide away having a party in older pieces - when I pick one, up it's chocka with errors and I have to repeat the hell out of the whole thing to clean them out.
Will no one rid me of these turbulent errors?