Saxophones Vito models and parts

[Woodpad]

There is not much known on the Vito model 7140 USA. This alto is from from1979 according to the serial number (40xxx).
Too late to be a Beaugnier.
It has no technical problems and is wel made. I use it for backup and holidays. The pads are not 100%, but you can blow a soft low Bb.
It has right hand bell keys and one guard for the lowest four keys. This guard is different from all other Vito guards. The pant guard and brace are also unknown.
The regulation screws on the main stack are a nice extra. It is now too dark to make extra pictures. Tommorow more.
Does anyone know who made this?

 

[Tuppertn]

That one-piece bell key guard kinda gives it away as a Yamaha stencil. The Yamaha-branded version was sold as the YAS-23 in the US.

EDIT: I flipped the pic orientation to match yours. Chromatic F# key matches, too.

 

[Woodpad]

Yes that guard is simular, but not identical. Also no detachable bow.

 

[Tuppertn]

Only the cutouts in the sheet metal are different. It wouldn't be identical if they're selling it as a stencil. I don't see a detachable bow on either of them.

 

[Woodpad]

Yamaha changed from detachable to non detachable bow at some time. Both are equal at this point.
There are lots of simularities in the keys. The Eb/C cluster is a clear Yamaha design, different from Jupiter instruments.

 

[skeller047]

Vito sold a lot of these YxS-23 stencils. For a while, they were assembled in the US at the Yamaha plant. Or maybe at Vito’s Kenosha facility? Probably the most common Vito seen on eBay and Reverb, at least here in USA.

 

[Woodpad]

Vito sold a lot of these YxS-23 stencils. For a while, they were assembled in the US at the Yamaha plant. Or maybe at Vito’s Kenosha facility? Probably the most common Vito seen on eBay and Reverb, at least here in USA.

It is known that the 7131 model is made with Yamaha parts. This has never been said for the 7140 model, so its a well kept seccret.

 

[skeller047]

Following up. Been surfing the wayback machine archive of doctorsax.biz Vito Serial Number chart.

Vito Serial Numbers

Doctor Sax repairs, buys and sells woodwinds...saxes, clarinet flutes and a variety of reed instruments. I strive to bring quality affordable instruments to people who want to play. I specialize in saxophones and other vintage instruments.

web.archive.org

At the bottom of the page there is a chart showing info about model numbers. The one for Model 7140 is a link to some pictures of an alto that looks like yours. The text is just asking whether anyone knows anything about that horn.

Vito Alto Sax - USA

My suspicion, given that it is stamped “USA”, that it is made from old parts and sold under the current model number. Wikipedia states that 7140 models are made in Taiwan, in the article on Leblanc. But this sure looks like a Yamaha to me. At least partly…

Understand that this web site only listed individual horns that were submitted, some with pictures. That’s why this is the only entry for the 7140 model. I don’t know if any KHS (Jupiter) models were assembled in the US, I believe the 7133 models were all stamped Made in Taiwan.

Hope this helps.

[EDIT] It also appears from this site that most of these Vito Yamaha horns are YxS-21, not 23.

 

[Woodpad]

Thanks, it is clear that te origin of the 7140 model can not be found with Beaugnier or Yanigisawa. So the the best way to go forward is to compare it to the 7131 (Yamaha) and the 7133(Jupiter) and make a verdict based on the differences.

 

[turf3]

Yamaha/Vito.

Might have been assembled elsewhere than Japan, but it's a Yamaha. If it says "USA" on it then it's a Yamaha assembled in the US. A few parts (like that keyguard) might have been locally sourced.

It's a Yamaha.

Why does it matter, anyway?

 

[JayeNM]

There is not much known on the Vito model 7140 USA.

Sure there is, though. It is a YAS 23 rebranded. Does it say Made in USA on it ? I am not seeing anything in your 7140 which is not a YAS 23, myself...

 

[JayeNM]

[EDIT] It also appears from this site that most of these Vito Yamaha horns are YxS-21, not 23.

Actually there were way more 23's stenciled for Vito than 21's...on the used market probably 75% of Yama-made, Vito Altos and tenors are 23's...21's weren't really made for all that long, maybe a decade tops...

 

[JayeNM]

21 = screw tension ferrule on bow, plastic nib pivot attachments to the side C and Bb key, an extra useless piece of loose tubing spacer below the upper stack A key (altos), and the alt F# is an oval touch.

Same tube, bow, bell and neck geometries. Different sorta pivot screws.

There isn't a whole lotta finery to really get into as far as one era of 21/23 to another. It isn'r like there are 'transitional' details which appeared slowly then morphed into something else.

The 23 Tenors changed their octave mechanism a bit in there sometime.

But really, spec-wise, not a lot ever really changed in the whole run from mid-70's to the time Vito went with Jupiter (2000-04, I believe).

 

[ghostler]

But really, spec-wise, not a lot ever really changed in the whole run from mid-70's to the time Vito went with Jupiter (2000-04, I believe).

Thanks, that helps to clinch my Le Blanc Vito 7133T Jupiter stencil, which was oddly marketed by Le Blanc with a Yamaha YTS-23 case instead of a Jupiter case. Arrived today, my 7133T now rests in a new Crossrock CRA862TSBL tenor compact hard case in deep blue. I wanted something less bulky to haul on the move, cost me $146.00 (£108.81) plus tax on Amazon:

Cover top side has a zippered compartment for mouthpiece, reeds, and miscellaneous. I prefer a hard case as although gig bags are slightly lighter, it is easy for a sax to get damaged.

 

[ghostler]

Regarding @Woodpad 's Vito 7140 alto, I did some further investigating between YAS-23, -24, -25 by examining various photos on EBay and Reverb. It is a late model YAS-23. The later Yamaha models starting with YAS-24 have the high F#, which the -23 doesn't.

To keep it unique to Vito and to differentiate it from a YAS-23, Yamaha did a few minor cosmetic changes:

1. Changed the bow brace design to a simple triangle cut out;
2. Right side one piece lower pad guard cut outs were altered to appear differently;
3. Left side clothes guard has cutouts whereas the YAS-23 doesn't;
4. Vito name stamped on the bell right side;
5. Style of case altered with sewn vinyl edges like the YTS-23 instead of molded round longitudinal edges with aluminum edge end guards?

Otherwise, it is a late model YAS-23 in disguise, probably a best kept secret. 😀

 

[Woodpad]

Yamaha/Vito.

Might have been assembled elsewhere than Japan, but it's a Yamaha. If it says "USA" on it then it's a Yamaha assembled in the US. A few parts (like that keyguard) might have been locally sourced.

It's a Yamaha.

Why does it matter, anyway?

When I bought this saxophone I thought that it looked like a yamaha. According to the wiki page Leblanc (musical instruments manufacturer):

Leblanc added the KHS company of Taiwan as a source for Vito saxophones in 1981. The KHS versions were sold as models 7133, 7136, 7140, and 7190.

It's something else. So it is just some correction of foot notes. Recently I saw the same keyguard on a 1731 model, so it is probably an original Yamaha design, There is also one which looks like like a bbq grill.

Sure there is, though. It is a YAS 23 rebranded. Does it say Made in USA on it ? I am not seeing anything in your 7140 which is not a YAS 23, myself...

Only USA below the serial number.

 

[Woodpad]

Regarding @Woodpad 's Vito 7140 alto, I did some further investigating between YAS-23, -24, -25 by examining various photos on EBay and Reverb. It is a late model YAS-23. The later Yamaha models starting with YAS-24 have the high F#, which the -23 doesn't.

To keep it unique to Vito and to differentiate it from a YAS-23, Yamaha did a few minor cosmetic changes:

1. Changed the bow brace design to a simple triangle cut out;
2. Right side one piece lower pad guard cut outs were altered to appear differently;
3. Left side clothes guard has cutouts whereas the YAS-23 doesn't;
4. Vito name stamped on the bell right side;
5. Style of case altered with sewn vinyl edges like the YTS-23 instead of molded round longitudinal edges with aluminum edge end guards?

Otherwise, it is a late model YAS-23 in disguise, probably a best kept secret. 😀

Allso all Yamaha Vito's have a fixed metal thumbhook. It is in a rectangular black Leblanc case.

 

[ghostler]

Only USA below the serial number.

Then it was assembled from Yamaha factory parts modified for Vito in either the Yamaha USA plant or Le Blanc USA plant. Regardless, you have a prized later YAS-23 in your possession.

Also all Yamaha Vito's have a fixed metal thumbhook. It is in a rectangular black Leblanc case.

Good eyes, I missed that.

Lack of high F#? I have found the falsetto (altissimo) fingering to be easier and more natural to do than finger the odd location of the high F# key. I have 3 saxes without (Beaugnier Vito low Bb bari, Vito (Jupiter) tenor, Selmer Bundy II alto), but it doesn't hinder me for lacking that key.

 

[Woodpad]

21 = screw tension ferrule on bow, plastic nib pivot attachments to the side C and Bb key, an extra useless piece of loose tubing spacer below the upper stack A key (altos), and the alt F# is an oval touch.

Same tube, bow, bell and neck geometries. Different sorta pivot screws.

There isn't a whole lotta finery to really get into as far as one era of 21/23 to another. It isn'r like there are 'transitional' details which appeared slowly then morphed into something else.

The 23 Tenors changed their octave mechanism a bit in there sometime.

But really, spec-wise, not a lot ever really changed in the whole run from mid-70's to the time Vito went with Jupiter (2000-04, I believe).

Picture of the octave mechanism is comming.

 

[JayeNM]

I see the unusual aspects you point out, yeah some interesting mix-match details on that one....

Honestly cannot say I have ever seen a VITO branded, Yama-era horn which actually was stamped "USA" on it.....