Transposing Cheat Sheet

[scooch]

Hello,
Does anyone have or know of such a thing? I've got a piece written for Alto that I want to tranpose and it would be great to just have a sheet that says Alto 'c' = Tenor'?', if its written as music on a stave so much the better!
This way I thought I'd make less mistakes. I figured I'd make my own one but if some knows of one already done........ :whistle:

cheery-bye
Scooch

 

[Pjonah]

Not sure what you mean there Scooch!

Have a look at www.mymasterkey.com

Thats a pretty cool thing, I have one and its as easy or as difficult as you want it to be.

Simon

 

[phil_edwards]

A quick method of transposing the 'key' from Alto to Tenor is to look at the Alto key signature and flatten it by one (I think!!!) What??? I hear you say...

Basically if you have an Alto part in Cmajor (all natural) the Tenor part will be in the 'key that has one more flat' - in this case Fmajor which has Bb.

If the Alto part has 3 flats (Eb major, with Bb, Eb, Ab), Tenor will play the key that has one more flat (Ab major, with a Bb, Eb, Ab, Db)

And the last example, if Alto is in Dmajor (F#, C#) you 'flatten' it by one to get a key with only one sharp, namely Gmajor (F#)

Think of it as adding one more flat to the key signature, or removing a sharp, whichever the key has that you're starting from.

Obviously you need to transpose the notes, but this'll be in the right key.

These things are good exercises to start off on paper. You'll begin to get your head around how the key signatures work and the relationships between them.

Hope I've got that right - I'm pretty sure Tenor plays 'one less flat' than Alto. I don't doubt a correction will follow if not :whistle:


regards, Phil

 

[justin_chune]

The intervalic difference between the alto and tenor is a fifth. Alto C = tenor F. It's easy to check, just go up or down the chord. F A C or C A F. To transpose your alto part drop all of the notes a fifth. A line note will drop two lines and a space note two spaces. The new key signature will have one less sharp, or one more flat, as above. Now get your pencil out and let us know how you get on.

 

[scooch]

thanks for your help guys. I love the mathematical logic behind music, its fascinating...... its just a shame I am so hopeless at maths!!!
cheers though, I will start with a simple piece!!

 

[scooch]

Hi Chris,

That is *exactly* what I wanted. Thanks a zillion!!! 😛

all the best
Scooch.

 

[rhysonsax]

I like the table on the Jazzwise chart but find the example of transposing bass clef for Eb players is confusing/wrong.

I often play trombone bass clef music on the bari sax. To do that, I treat the bass clef as though it were a treble clef and add three sharps (or remove three flats). Maybe the chart has just missed a bit out.

Rhys

 

[justin_chune]

They have only transpoed the music from the bass cleff to the treble, to show what it will sound like at concert pitch. They have not explained how to play it, as outlined by rhyonsax above. A pity that.

That bass line should have another three sharps added to the key signature taking it into F# and then read and played as if written in the treble cleff. Works a treat.

 

[Simon]

Hi Rhysonsax

If you play the top stave, ignore the bass clef and keep the key signature it SOUNDS like the bottom stave. You don't play the bottom stave man, it's what it sounds like in concert pitch.

Simon

rhysonsax wrote:
I like the table on the Jazzwise chart but find the example of transposing bass clef for Eb players is confusing/wrong.

I often play trombone bass clef music on the bari sax. To do that, I treat the bass clef as though it were a treble clef and add three sharps (or remove three flats). Maybe the chart has just missed a bit out.

Rhys

 

[rhysonsax]

simon wrote:
Hi Rhysonsax

If you play the top stave, ignore the bass clef and keep the key signature it SOUNDS like the bottom stave. You don't play the bottom stave man, it's what it sounds like in concert pitch.

Simon

Some communication difficulty I think, either in the transposition sheet or in the thread above.

I know that you don't play the bottom example, but you need to alter the top example in order to play it right.

To play concert pitch music on an Eb instrument you have to play the note on your intrument a minor 3rd below the written note.

The easy way of doing this for bass clef music is to mentally change the key signature (by adding 3 sharps or reducing three flats) and treat the staff as a treble clef staff.

You don't "keep the key signature".

Rhys

 

[Simon]

Good point Rhys - my mistake. The bottom stave should be in C (no accidentals), or a minor 3rd up on A = C major. I'll fix the page - thanks for pointing this out 🙂

Simon

 

[rhysonsax]

I think you need three lines of music.

First line bass clef in concert pitch.

Second line what the Eb (alto or bari) player interprets this as (i.e. treble clef and add three sharps to key signature).

Third line, how this will sound in concert pitch (i.e. exactly as written on bass clef OR same notes but different octave on the treble clef).

Above the example music there should be another bullet point telling players what to do (something like "mentally change the key signature (by adding 3 sharps or reducing three flats) and treat the staff as a treble clef staff".

I don't know whether it would scare people to see some accidentals in the example, so that they can see what happens to them. What do you think ?

Rhys

ps I suppose examples for Bb players are another step in complexity - but it's not too hard.

 

[Simon]

... or following the rest of the page's advice and realise that to transpose from Eb to concert pitch, whether it's intervals or keys, go up a minor 3rd - ie A major for Eb instrument is sounds C major in concert

yeah, probably needs three lines like you say
cheers
simon

 

[rhysonsax]

Cheers for the credit Simon !

A couple of suggestions:

• 2nd bullet could say "notes" rather than "intervals"
• 3rd bullet should say "transpose the key signature down a minor 3rd (e.g. concert C becomes A for the Eb instruments)
• On second music example "same note positions as above" might be confusing for some. Should it say "same line on treble clef as it was on the bass clef " ?

What do other people think (it should be really clear for people who haven't met these concepts before) ?

Rhys

 

[philthd]

i learned this trick ,when i was 10 and couldnt sight transpose at all, using a 3 line explanation

change the key
pretend its the treble clef
be careful with the accidentals

like many simple things to do any explanation of it seems more complicated than the actual process. and like many things in music youve got to try it a few times and screw up until you can do it right

 

[Simon]

Thanks Rhys... I've adopted your first 2 suggestions, but I'll leave the third one.
Simon

rhysonsax wrote:
Cheers for the credit Simon !

A couple of suggestions:

• 2nd bullet could say "notes" rather than "intervals"
• 3rd bullet should say "transpose the key signature down a minor 3rd (e.g. concert C becomes A for the Eb instruments)
• On second music example "same note positions as above" might be confusing for some. Should it say "same line on treble clef as it was on the bass clef " ?

What do other people think (it should be really clear for people who haven't met these concepts before) ?

Rhys