Stuck in a rut

[zoelyn]

Hello all. I'm a later bloomer to the alto sax. I've been completely self taught since May 2006 and can play a lot by ear. All I've done so far is learn a set of scales ( A minor/ major, C major, D minor, F major, G minor) learnt where most of the notes are, practiced tone and feeling in the notes and played tunes that I like. ( I learnt most of what I know from the Pete Thomas DVD) What can I do now to broaden my ability and knowledge? Er, besides the Godforsaken task of learning to read music - any tips on making this easier by the way?

 

[Linky Lee]

Practise, makes reading music easier.

There are rhymes you can remember to remember the position of the notes, but most people find that the difficulty is finding the note and it's length or rhythm at the same time.

Get hold of some music, and just go through it slowly, and it'll get easier the more you do.

maybe you could look into improvisational skills, and through that some different scales and dorian and mixolydian modes.

There are many books avaliable for learning these things.

A teacher is great as well if you can afford and find one.

 

[Bobby G]

Hi Zoelyn and welcome to the Breakfast Room. I also am self-taught and a late-comer to sax, although my previous experiences with many years playing guitar and childhood lessons on piano definitely helped. If you aren't going to learn to read music (I do, very slowly, but play sax totally by ear) you just have to keep playing to develop your ear or improvisational abilities. I often play on my own, just playing around with tunes, putting different harmonies to a well-known tune, or trying different rhythms, accents (using different tonguing etc) and phrasing. Sometimes I just improvise on a blues or something like that.

Sometimes I play along with whatever's on the radio or in my CD player, again trying to play the tune straight, or harmonising or embellishing the melody, or putting in 'call-and-response' licks behind a singer. I've also got a couple of the Jamey Aebersold play-along CD's which are good for practising jazzy playing.

The last thing I do is join in at jam sessions; usually the other players are sympathetic and helpful towards less able players, and you can pick up some good tips as well as getting the experience of playing with other musicians, which is great. I've been fortunate in that I have quite a good ear, and I pick things up quickly.

I don't really follow a rigid practise regime, sometimes I work on long notes, scales, arpeggios or different tonguing techniques, but mostly I just incorporate those techniques into my playing. I think you should approach your playing basically how you want to - you may feel the need later to learn how to read, or find a teacher, or you may be happy to continue playing by ear, it's whatever works for you really, and what you want to do with your playing. And how good your self-discipline is (mine's not very.)

I can certainly see the benefits of being taught, and am thinking of getting a teacher myself, more to make sure I haven't developed any really bad habits and to get technical tips rather than to formally study the sax.

Also, whatever method you use to play or learn, you're going to have those periods where you feel like you're stuck in a rut, but on the other hand you'll have bursts of quite amazing progress if you keep at it. Even after playing guitar for 35 years that is still true. The main thing is to accept the plateaus knowing that another leap ahead could happen at any time, and to enjoy it as much as you can.

Good luck, Bob

 

[tengu01]

Hey there. I was self taught for a long time until I got a spanking at a jam session and decided to get taught. There are a number of things which helped improve my sight reading.

1. Joining a big band and having to keep up. Playing in a band setting allows you to put the music into context and you can feel where things are supposed to go. Additionally, there are others playing what you can see in front of you.

2. Get a metronome and go SLOWLY. Take pieces of music you don't know, so you don't end up taking the easy way out (actually playing it by memory instead of being forced to read what's in front of you)

Play it slowly enough that you can play the piece comfortably and once you have it right, bring the speed up and concentrate on reading what you're playing instead of trying to memorise it.

Good luck

 

[zoelyn]

Thanks for all the advice, it's helped a lot. Bob, like you I want to go to some lessons just to make sure I'm not doing anything really wrong, but essentially I'd like to amble along in my lazy 'play what I hear' fashion - feels good that way. As for the music reading going at it slowly and trying not to memorise have been the best advice as it feels like a massive thing to learn. I'll give it a go - Thanks!

 

[tengu01]

Hey there Zoelyn, just to clarify: There's nothing wrong with memorising a tune. If you're used to playing by ear, you're probably quite good at memorising things. I found I used to start cheating by memorising little passages and not actually reading what was in front of me.

Only when I made a mistake did I have to refocus. Theoretically, if you are reading at an appropriate pace, you should have enough time to recognise the note and make the appropriate finger movement. The trick is to speed up the recognition process to the point where you are reading slightly ahead so as not to be surprised. Kind of like reading aloud.

Good luck 😉

 

[Pete Thomas]

That's right, memorising is important, so is reading. When learning one try to ignore the other. Good sight reading DOES involve the meory - you memorise shapes and patterns of rhythms especially so that instead of reading evry dot one by one you recognise small motifs or maybe a bar or few bars at a time. This is what happens eventually but tengu01 is right, while you are learning to read the memory part is sort of cheating.

The hardest part of learning to read is syncopated rhythms, e.g. quaver crrotchet quaver. Once you think of that as 4 quavers but with the middle two the same note slurred together it becomes obvious. The rest is just learning the notes on the lines and spaces and the rhythms.

It's also hard to put those two things together, learning one bit first is a good idea, e.g. learn to clap rhythms, then onece you get to reading melodies, your brain is not struggling too badly with the rhythm at the same time.

 

[Bobby G]

Reading when I was learning piano age 7-12 was my downfall. I did exactly what Tengu and Pete have described, which is to try and memorise it, obviously too quickly, so if I made a mistake I used to get flummoxed trying to find my place in the music.

Being of a mathematical bent, breaking rhythms up in the way Pete describes is very logical (e.g. split it into quavers, and a crotchet is two quavers, etc), but I always had trouble doing nothing when there was a rest on the page. Also I would try and get the melody and rhythm together rather than one followed by the other. It's all a matter of (self-)training if you can get down to it. Even as a kid I never practised enough....

Cheers, Bob

Cheers, Bob

 

[Linky Lee]

I was the complete opposite when I tried to learn Piano, at the same age (well 8)

I could already read music, I could just not get my fingers to do what my brain wanted them to do. I found piano so ridiculously hard I ended up quitting after a year as I managed only to get to playing sausages in a pan.

Then two years ago I got a Piano on an impulse as I've always loved the Piano and always wanted to be able to play better.
And now voila, randomly fingers seem to agree with the Piano now and I don't find it too hard to get around on a Piano anymore.

I really enjoy playing my piano, and nearly everything I write is written on Piano. Though I'm still dire. I've also found it's really helped me learn scales, understand lots of theory and harmony.

 

[Bobby G]

I would love a piano now, not only for playing but for things like following chord extensions and alterations in the jazz theory area. It would have to be an electrical one with a headphone socket as I'd be very self-conscious playing it within earshot of anyone else :S

Cheers, Bob

 

[mfox]

what i would suggest to you is the abersold book for blues..it's really good forjamming along to.. it comes with a book with a tune in every key, and a great cd of a 3 piece band playing the backing.. the tunes a slow to medium tempo..

 

[Bobby G]

The Aebersold volume 24, which is the one many people seem to start off on, is good too, it has something in all major and minor keys, and nothing too fast.

Cheers, Bob

 

[tengu01]

Oh yeah. I have gone (and am still going down) the aebersold route as well. Something to try making it just a little more challenging for yourself:

When you play a blues, it is easy to stay in one blues scale and jam over the whole piece (guilty for years....still on probation)

Try actually following the chord changes and notice how much more flavour your improvisations take on.

Not as easy as the abovementioned route, because there are common tones across all the scales in a blues which can be plucked out by ear (guilty again) but I am trying to break the habit of years and work on really getting to know the structure of the song like guitarists and pianists need to.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Use the major blues scale as well, that one cannot be used over the whole sequence but needs to match the chords. Nice to alternate between the two.