Saxophones Selmer no longer supreme!

[Stephen Howard]

The thing about different horns having certain elements that only speak to some of us is not to be taken lightly. Eric Marienthal played Brecker’s tenor and said that he thought it wasn’t anything special.

This is very true.
Clients often ask me what I think of their horns (it's usually Selmer MkVI owners that ask this...likely due to the notion that they're rather variable in tone). Most get told "It's fine...nice"; some get told "Never sell this horn!" and a few have to put up with "Well, it's a bit on the...warm side?"
I did some work on MkVI alto recently and found that it was perhaps the most laid-back VI I'd ever played. I mean really laid back. I had 'the conversation' with the client and tried to be as diplomatic as I could (i.e. not much) - but he was delighted with my prognosis. Turns out he went through a good few examples before he found that one that did it for him. You can't argue with that.

By the same token I've had clients in who've sung the praises of their horn ("Best one I've ever tried...and I've tried a lot!") - and yet when I come to blow it I've thought it to be 'OK, but nothing really special'.
I'm always happy to give an opinion when asked - but at the end of the day it's just my job to ensure the horn is able to give of its best. After that it's just "Whatever floats your boat".

 

[Pete Thomas]

By the same token I've had clients in who've sung the praises of their horn ("Best one I've ever tried...and I've tried a lot!") - and yet when I come to blow it I've thought it to be 'OK, but nothing really special'.

Happens to me a lot. It’s very very subjective at the best of times but often it’s a case of not being sure always the horn you are trying is in top condition. You don’t have that problem of course.

 

[Tonehole]

The thing about different horns having certain elements that only speak to some of us is not to be taken lightly. Eric Marienthal played Brecker’s tenor and said that he thought it wasn’t anything special.

Yes when swapping horns with buddies we often ponder why they sound so good on that set up when we consider it junk.

I have turned in my saxophones for overhauls or badly needed set up and the tech will at times comment that the horn should be unplayable with the number of leaks and wonkyness of the keys and springs, bent stack, leaky tenon, tape wrapped mouthpiece cork, broken spring replaced with a rubber band. I may have played it the night before at a gig and determined enough is enough time to send it to the spa!

Kinda Zen thing being one with the horn.
Why many don't care others do about plastic touches or the feel of a ligature as one adjusts the reed. When I was in University 20 years ago I would ask players in the performance program what mouthpiece they were on as I could recognise the horn not the piece. Often they said they did not know as it came in the case with the used horn their parents bought them. They knew their reed though. If they knew the piece odds were they had no idea the tip opening. These were some killer players who have gone on to become accomplished professional performers.

Dang I neglected to mention Stephen Howard as another site we are fortunate to have access to as a resource.
Also PigSquealers 🐽 C Melody and repair threads are a goldmine for those who are interested in the obscure and common.

Less we forget Cafesaxophone!

 

[Pete Effamy]

Yes when swapping horns with buddies we often ponder why they sound so good on that set up when we consider it junk.

Yes! My mate and I prefer one another on each other’s horns - or however I should word it!

I have turned in my saxophones for overhauls or badly needed set up and the tech will at times comment that the horn should be unplayable

Yes, I’m always pleased when Steve Howard finds leaks (I’m sure he thinks I’m odd) as it means that my technique hasn’t gone up the Swanee.

 

[Stephen Howard]

Happens to me a lot. It’s very very subjective at the best of times but often it’s a case of not being sure always the horn you are trying is in top condition. You don’t have that problem of course.

That makes a huge difference. Many a brand new horns has issues that affect its playability and response - and you can't really ascertain its true qualities until you know for sure that it's firing on all eight.

 

[Stephen Howard]

I have turned in my saxophones for overhauls or badly needed set up and the tech will at times comment that the horn should be unplayable with the number of leaks and wonkyness of the keys and springs, bent stack, leaky tenon, tape wrapped mouthpiece cork, broken spring replaced with a rubber band. I may have played it the night before at a gig and determined enough is enough time to send it to the spa!

I often get clients in who book, say, an alto in for a service. Once I've done the examination and the quote they very often say "Oh, by the way, I've got the tenor in the car. Would you mind taking a quick look at it where I'm here? There's nothing really wrong with it...plays just fine".
And it often turns out it's in worse shape than the other horn they brought in.

You get used to such things...you compensate - and you don't realise how bad it is until someone sorts it out.

 

[Stephen Howard]

Yes, I’m always pleased when Steve Howard finds leaks (I’m sure he thinks I’m odd) as it means that my technique hasn’t gone up the Swanee.

Nope, I get an awful lot of clients in who say "Is it me???"
Sometimes it is - and yeah, it can be pretty heartbreaking to have to tell a solid pro that's there's nothing wrong with the horn.
It gets to be very much like a doctor/patient relationship because all horns have a personal aspect attached to them - and yes, sometimes it really does boil down to the player.
But nothing beats their sense of relief when they hear "**** man...your XYZ key is leaking like a sieve!!"

 

[teen37]

Nope, I get an awful lot of clients in who say "Is it me???"
Sometimes it is - and yeah, it can be pretty heartbreaking to have to tell a solid pro that's there's nothing wrong with the horn.
It gets to be very much like a doctor/patient relationship because all horns have a personal aspect attached to them - and yes, sometimes it really does boil down to the player.
But nothing beats their sense of relief when they hear "**** man...your XYZ key is leaking like a sieve!!"

I can totally relate to that thought process.... "is it me?". 😳🙄😂 I think at this stage I truly believe it too 😏😂

 

[Targa]

I can totally relate to that thought process.... "is it me?".

I only get that first thing in the morning when I look in the mirror.

 

[teen37]

I only get that first thing in the morning when I look in the mirror.

My reaction is much stronger than that first thing in the morning looking in the mirror 😳🙄😂

 

[Tonehole]

I can totally relate to that thought process.... "is it me?". 😳🙄😂 I think at this stage I truly believe it too 😏😂

Why you buy decent equipment you know it is you not the horn, clarinet, flute whatever you toot. You have no excuse but working and practising to fix the problems.

Make the instrument your own and you can squeeze everything it can give out of it. When you have achieved that then you move on if you feel the need.

You need to achieve a certain level of skill and experience to feel the subtle nuisances in instruments. and mouthpieces. But even as a novice if you can notice a significant ease of play in another instrument and the tone fits your sound palette better then I suggest you move on if you can afford it. A good instructor can tell you if the instrument is limiting your growth as a player after a few lessons.

I have been playing / learning since I was eleven and only the past few years have I bought, owned and played a few Yamaha saxophones. I was shocked at the comfortable ergonomics and ease of articulation but I have sold them all. Save a YSS475 I use as an outdoor horn. For me they seem to lack soul or a rawness that needs to be mastered. Like playing on auto pilot? I am sure others will comment on this? Why I will never sell my III tenor I know it so well and am still pushing it further after decades of playing on it.

Playing should bring you joy as well as to others.
Trust your set up and yourself.

 

[teen37]

@Tonehole that's been the problem.... I don't really know if it is me or the instrument as we've established so far😳
I have been playing tenor for a very long time but with a few long breaks in between. I've never taken to my current tenor, it's an old Taiwan student import. It was all I could afford at the time. But I do feel it's holding me back hence the search for an upgrade.
Having done a little more research I think I know where I'm headed going forward but I'm not rushing into anything. It has to be right.
I will, however, persevere with what I have until I find "my" horn!
I don't want "autopilot"!!!

 

[Colin the Bear]

Oh the reeds I've blamed when a leak appears or gets worse.

 

[Stephen Howard]

Why you buy decent equipment you know it is you not the horn, clarinet, flute whatever you toot. You have no excuse but working and practising to fix the problems.

And herein lies the problem.
Sure, if you buy a top-of-the-range Yani you stand a good chance of that statement carrying some weight. For anything else - nah. TJ and Yamaha come a close second. Anything else...I'd have it checked over before I made any assumptions.

You only have to read a handful of my reviews to realise that the price you pay seldom guarantees a 100% working horn straight out of the box. And, I might add, the more 'check points' a seller claims to make...the more likely it seems that stuff will need sorting. Just sayin'.

And to be fair, some of those issues are simply down to a factory setup settling down over time - like the G# regulation.
So never assume - check and re-check. Or have your repairer do it. It'll be beer money - unless you bought a real lemon.

 

[Tonehole]

Agreed,
I always have a horn gone through and set to my tastes before I play it seriously. Play a few weeks to get a feel for the instrument and then take it in.
I just bought a Cannonball tenor 2nd hand and the horn is lightly played ( like new) and it has definitely not been set up. Maybe why the owner let it go so quick and cheap. So Cannonball missed it and the retailing dealer didn't do their job and the owner never bothered to have it set up and regulated after purchase. Three strikes.
The horn will be a beast once released with set up and regulated properly.

Pig Squealer mentioned to me when I was shopping that a new Château soprano saxophone requires at least 2 hours of set up time by a good tech when delivered from the factory.

 

[turf3]

Why you buy decent equipment you know it is you not the horn, clarinet, flute whatever you toot. You have no excuse but working and practising to fix the problems.
...

Except that condition can trump everything. The most extreme example is the time I took my piccolo to a jazz jam session where a sizable fraction of "Latin" tunes are typically played. I enjoy soloing on piccolo over "Latin" tunes.

EXCEPT.

The pad on the thumb key had a big insect hole (I had not played this instrument in probably five years.). Foolishly, I did not put the instrument together and check function before I started playing (I think I probably got there late), I just put it together and started blowing at the solo point - nothing would come out but C and C#. Terrible!

 

[turf3]

In the junior college big band I'm playing in, one of the tenor players has been struggling with a horn and she calls it "crap" and the director calls it "Crap". I took a look at it last week - leaks all over the place. I think it may be mostly adjustment screws, not actually bad pads. If she brings it tonight I'm going to see if she'll let me run a leak light down it.

It's a nearly new silver plated Yamaha 62 tenor.

NOT "crap".

 

[teen37]

@turf3 definitely not crap then if it's a Yamaha 🙄

 

[turf3]

@turf3 definitely not crap then if it's a Yamaha 🙄

Very far from it. It's a top quality professional saxophone which is out of regulation. And maybe needs a couple of pads.

 

[PigSquealer]

Pig Squealer mentioned to me when I was shopping that a new Château soprano saxophone requires at least 2 hours of set up time by a good tech when delivered from the factory.

Usually from factory (Vietnam or Taiwan depending on grade) they are shipped by ocean containers to port of Los Angeles. This duration can be months. The action is wedged completely closed leaving the factory. A warm high humidity climate. Here in LA units can sit for awhile in the non climate controlled warehouse. It’s drier here. Adjusting screws can only do so much. The biggest issue that eats time is the lack of glue behind the pads. Like there isn’t anything to even do a minor float move. Plan on half needing some attention. That’s why Kessler, Theo Wanne & Music Medic order their house brand(s) (Chateau products) 80-90% finished. I dunno what level Conn ordered or if Conn reviewed/ setup stateside. Maybe being done at the distribution centers ?
Very little pad impression if any. They do final pad sealing and regulation in house. This is why they’re good playing units. A new horn well setup pre delivery to the customer.