Saxophones Selmer no longer supreme!

[SuperAction80]

Guys, this all makes for very interesting reading, and I'm sitting here in bed wondering now if I should even be considering going all the way to Warwick to see this Selmer SA80I tomorrow 🤔🤷

I tried a slew of new Selmers yesterday, and only the Signature made me raise an eyebrow. It's the best of the current offerings, not even up for debate in my mind. The shop brought in every Selmer they could find from the Cigar Cutter up to the Supreme. I tried most of them. The others were hand hammered by Buescher, and I was short on time. (Oh, this is a really good inside joke for you historian techs) It was "the other" Super Action 80 tenor that made me smile the most. I've only ever played my (series 1), so I was more than curious to see what this one could do. It had some repaired pull down on the neck. The tech who repaired it modified it somewhat to play more like the Serie III neck I've been using for many years. It was lively. The right hand spring tension was far heavier than I would prefer, but that's easily adjusted. Don't ignore that fact. I know what the model can feel like. All in all, you're trying out the best bang for the buck Paris model out there. There wasn't a VI, Supreme, or otherwise that wanted me to trade horns. I think that says it all. I just hope that your example is in good repair so that you can get a good idea as to what the horn can do. And yes, it can put up with a ton of playing with very little maintenance. I can't make that same claim for modern Chinese and Taiwanese horns, though if my Vietnamese Kessler is any indication, they can probably hold their own, too. You can go to the tech quite frequently with the 10's (😳 really?) of thousands you save on the initial purchase. What's a few hundred every few years when Selmer wants 10k+ USD for the initial purchase... while requiring the same or more time at the tech? Really, toneholes falling off brand new horns called "The Supreme"? The jokes write themselves.

 

[SuperAction80]

I don't disagree. I have not serviced any current high end Conn Selmers but the non-Taiwanese 'intermediate' ones I have done (seem to be of stretch when they moved fabrication to China) were unimpressive in a variety of ways...again estimating these were around 7+ years old based on some threadbare timeline info I quickly looked up....

Regarding the Chinese made Conn-Selmers, go back about 20 years and grab one of those ebay shop Bently horns. Preferably, one that isn't an obnoxious color. Use slightly better cork and felt, and get the oversized neck pip tonehole under control, and you have the modern Conn-Selmer "Intermediate" model. I know. I own one and had to do a double take when I saw the new Conn-Selmers. Brought my old Bentley to the shop, and the tech and I were going over EVERYTHING! The same machine marks and numbering system was present on all keys. Check the backside of most of the keys. You'll see em. Numbers and machine marks. I'm glad they got the neck thing sorted out. I ended up shoving the straw of a WD-40 bottle into that pip, before cutting and sanding it. That kept the upper register in tune. Then, I just donated my Super Action 80 neck to that horn. It's an adequate player, but the pot metal steel used to make the rods still scares me. It's a close approximation to my SA80. Whoda thunk that I could get $1,500 for it if I were to slap on the old Selmer USA logo? And the new necks still play kinda stuffy and dead, though they're now in tune. What kills me is the fact that there are extremely well made Chinese horns out there. Conn-Selmer went for one of the cheapest options, then just inflated the hell out of the price. It's 2026, and people are still mesmerized by branding. It makes my head hurt.

Well, not as if Paris isn't using the same business model these days.

 

[teen37]

The only Eastern Music horn I've played was a short wrap bass on consignment at Sam Ash a few years ago and it was a beautiful instrument. It was expensive, though, beyond what I would have been willing to pay.

But, just like with other instruments, there are some that speak to you - have a soul - and some that don't, and you know it after a few notes.

Selmer, Conn, Buescher, Yanagisawa, Yamaha, King, Eastman, Thomann, Chateau, Barone, does it matter when you find the one you actually connect with. Arguably, "connecting" is a very subjective term but I am still maintaining that its a "thing" ,and you can play a few of the same model and only one really speaks to you.

Subtle differences in setup, spring tension, whatever, are what makes or breaks a horn, even if everything else is perfect.

Nicely said I think 😉

 

[teen37]

No idea how long of a trek that is for you but none of this should dissuade you.

SA80s can be really nice horns and they generally are priced pretty reasonably. If it plays well and the price is right and the sound is to your taste go for it!

I wouldn’t advise anyone to go buy a new Supreme though. 🙂

It's approximately 80 mile ish round trip. 🤔 It's woken me up early this morning thinking about it... Am I rushing into something here?.... I really wish I had a better sax player to take with me.... Not sure I trust myself enough 🤷... I haven't played many other horns but I think I would be able to tell if it didn't suit my playing style 🤔

 

[Saxlicker]

I don't know exactly what it is, but I've had a few brands over the years that include King, Selmer, Corton, Yanagisawa,Yamaha, Martin, Buescher Keilworth, Grassi.
If I can only have one horn it would have to be my Selmer to reduce the FOMO to its minimum. But I don't think FOMO is the right expression actually, perhaps I just mean the most satisfying singular choice for me.
You can look at a saxophone dispassionately as a necessary tool or you can throw many more things in to the equation.
As hobby players are likely romancing about their influences, so there should always be room for a Conn 10 (notably left out of this type of conversation regularly as people prefer to cite selmer as the dying enemy every single time) Old King, Buescher or Selmer etc. You'll never see Ben Webster playing a P Mauriat with a SYOS mouthpiece. Without suggesting that would be possible if he were around today, what he did back then still means something to people today.
A pro on tour has a different criteria and may be worried about what may happen to something more unique and of high value opting for something entirely different.
I can't say if a sax like 'Better sax', 'Bauhaus Walstien' or 'Jehrico' etc wouldn't be every bit as good to play or maintain as a long established top brand sax.
But I can say, something is missing in ownership experience for me.
I appreciate hand made element and craftsmanship, ornate features, classic designs while others wont care.
On new instruments the fake aging and unlacquered look are simply out there to try to catch that side or the market. To me that is very misguided and in the case of unlacquered, has nothing to do with tone preference, others may love it and argue that point.
Endorsement is also another red herring regarding new horns.
I have enough experience to understand household name players can be seduced into endorsement and say all the right things about the brand but not all of them feel the same way in the longer term. Just watch YouTube and note the dates of performance and often you'll see them using something else later on. Another word on YouTube and all things web wide, remember you can say what you like and it can be viewed by as many or as few people as search for such.
Fan boys and haters.
I say play what pleases you within your budget.
So if you are chucking out your Selmer I'll take it.

 

[dexdex]

…….
For goodness sake, there IS A DIFFERENCE between playing a Yama 62 and an Eastern Music horn, now really....

It's not as if THE LATTER WILL PERFORM just as well as the former.

They can 'get you thru the gig' or give you something usable, but honestly....

This 'momentum' is more about the imploding global economy than it is about 'these cheap horns can do everything a grail horn can'
……
Good players unload their $4-5g horns because they HAVE TO due to life circumstances....
Musicians are in a tenuous position. Pay scales are stagnant……

So folks do what they need to to get by.
That's ALL this …´´´´´´

Exactly my understanding too.
Asian « fantasy name » horns are good enough these days to support a professional use.
Those promoting them never need an overhaul, they just move to the latest release.
Pete Christlieb and Gerald Albright have been playing and promoting an Asia made US brand for … 3 decades ?
Rien de neuf sous le soleil ☀️.

 

[teen37]

I don't know exactly what it is, but I've had a few brands over the years that include King, Selmer, Corton, Yanagisawa,Yamaha, Martin, Buescher Keilworth, Grassi.
If I can only have one horn it would have to be my Selmer to reduce the FOMO to its minimum. But I don't think FOMO is the right expression actually, perhaps I just mean the most satisfying singular choice for me.
You can look at a saxophone dispassionately as a necessary tool or you can throw many more things in to the equation.
As hobby players are likely romancing about their influences, so there should always be room for a Conn 10 (notably left out of this type of conversation regularly as people prefer to cite selmer as the dying enemy every single time) Old King, Buescher or Selmer etc. You'll never see Ben Webster playing a P Mauriat with a SYOS mouthpiece. Without suggesting that would be possible if he were around today, what he did back then still means something to people today.
A pro on tour has a different criteria and may be worried about what may happen to something more unique and of high value opting for something entirely different.
I can't say if a sax like 'Better sax', 'Bauhaus Walstien' or 'Jehrico' etc wouldn't be every bit as good to play or maintain as a long established top brand sax.
But I can say, something is missing in ownership experience for me.
I appreciate hand made element and craftsmanship, ornate features, classic designs while others wont care.
On new instruments the fake aging and unlacquered look are simply out there to try to catch that side or the market. To me that is very misguided and in the case of unlacquered, has nothing to do with tone preference, others may love it and argue that point.
Endorsement is also another red herring regarding new horns.
I have enough experience to understand household name players can be seduced into endorsement and say all the right things about the brand but not all of them feel the same way in the longer term. Just watch YouTube and note the dates of performance and often you'll see them using something else later on. Another word on YouTube and all things web wide, remember you can say what you like and it can be viewed by as many or as few people as search for such.
Fan boys and haters.
I say play what pleases you within your budget.
So if you are chucking out your Selmer I'll take it.

Thank you so much for your insight 😊 all these positive comments are giving me the confidence to go take a look at this Selmer today. I'll let my instincts guide me. See how it feels. Honestly, back in the day when I was a young thing 🤔😳🙄😂 I never dreamt I would be able to afford a selmer... Back in the 80s when I started on the sax, they were the holy grail. I'm still in awe I guess of the provenance of the name attached to the horn. .... I'm pretty ignorant about alot of things sax related even though I've played one for most of my life, hence the anxiety about this visit today. But I'll put on my big girl pants and suck it up and go try it out and maybe... Just maybe.. I'll come back with a big smile on my face and a new/old horn ☺️😘

 

[Woodpad]

Exactly my understanding too.
Asian « fantasy name » horns are good enough these days to support a professional use.
Those promoting them never need an overhaul, they just move to the latest release.
Pete Christlieb and Gerald Albright have been playing and promoting an Asia made US brand for … 3 decades ?
Rien de neuf sous le soleil ☀️.

I come from a family of singers. I always see instruments as objects to help you make music that sings. The name on that instrument, is as shallow as laser engraving to me. When you play for a decade on the same instrument you learn new ways to modify the sound. I prefer instruments that can last longer than 3 decades.
Most instruments I play are from 1950-1960. The exceptions are a 1927 Couturier tenor and a 1926 Buescher C melody. I have some good instruments of this century but at the moment they are second choice based on singing capacity. I see a good tech as the priority to improve sound and mouthpieces as more important than the saxophone itself.

 

[thomsax]

As sax owner Martin Committee and "The Martin" saxes are "my saxes". Good saxes and not built to be a Selmer copy. Back in late 70's/ early 80's I could buy 5 Martins for the same price as one MkVI.

As player I'm not picky. I can play an Amati, Weltklang, Blue Label, Dörfler & Jörka, King 615, Coon Shooting Star, Bundy .... I'm still the same player. Over the years I have become more "anti". Here is a nice sax wreck that nobody wants to play/buy. I buy it and make it playable. I do the same with paintings. I buy paintings that were painted by hobby/amatuer painters. I cover the walls in the woodshed with paintings which most guys rejects.

 

[Saxlicker]

Thank you so much for your insight 😊 all these positive comments are giving me the confidence to go take a look at this Selmer today. I'll let my instincts guide me. See how it feels. Honestly, back in the day when I was a young thing 🤔😳🙄😂 I never dreamt I would be able to afford a selmer... Back in the 80s when I started on the sax, they were the holy grail. I'm still in awe I guess of the provenance of the name attached to the horn. .... I'm pretty ignorant about alot of things sax related even though I've played one for most of my life, hence the anxiety about this visit today. But I'll put on my big girl pants and suck it up and go try it out and maybe... Just maybe.. I'll come back with a big smile on my face and a new/old horn ☺️😘

Remember this @teen37
There are plenty out there so unless you are really sure about this horn once you've seen it you can walk away and even go back right?
I know thats hard to do (been there, seen it, done it) but take at least 5 minutes alone to weigh it up. Probably 10 !
Is it alto or tenor out of curiosity?
I think looking at it and not shying away from the trip is the best starting point.
But what do you know about the horn?

Here are some pointers...
Does it have regular servicing or the most recent servicing records?
Has it been loved by 1 owner looking cosmetically clean unblemished, or looking shabbier with at least a couple of owners?
Can you tell if the lacquer is original? is it an engraved model?
Any dents? Neck and bell flair dents in particular don't help.
How do you think the pads look? supple and clean or dull and hard?
Do all the key rods feel like you can't move them up and down (so the pad stays in one place over the tone hole)?
Does it play easily top to bottom?

If you get red flags from any of those questions maybe you should wait.
But enjoy the experience of trying it out and take your time to understand whats in front of you in terms of what you know to be good.
Good luck.

 

[teen37]

Remember this @teen37
There are plenty out there so unless you are really sure about this horn once you've seen it you can walk away and even go back right?
I know thats hard to do (been there, seen it, done it) but take at least 5 minutes alone to weigh it up. Probably 10 !
Is it alto or tenor out of curiosity?
I think looking at it and not shying away from the trip is the best starting point.
But what do you know about the horn?

Here are some pointers...
Does it have regular servicing or the most recent servicing records?
Has it been loved by 1 owner looking cosmetically clean unblemished, or looking shabbier with at least a couple of owners?
Can you tell if the lacquer is original? is it an engraved model?
Any dents? Neck and bell flair dents in particular don't help.
How do you think the pads look? supple and clean or dull and hard?
Do all the key rods feel like you can't move them up and down (so the pad stays in one place over the tone hole)?
Does it play easily top to bottom?

If you get red flags from any of those questions maybe you should wait.
But enjoy the experience of trying it out and take your time to understand whats in front of you in terms of what you know to be good.
Good luck.

Thanks 🙏 I have to go later today to try it. I'll take all that on board. 🙏🙏😊

 

[Pete Effamy]

It's approximately 80 mile ish round trip. 🤔 It's woken me up early this morning thinking about it... Am I rushing into something here?.... I really wish I had a better sax player to take with me.... Not sure I trust myself enough 🤷... I haven't played many other horns but I think I would be able to tell if it didn't suit my playing style 🤔

Record yourself on your phone, it’s something at least.

 

[teen37]

Record yourself on your phone, it’s something at least.

I'm taking hubby and my own sax to compare it with so we should hear a difference hopefully 🙏

 

[Pete Effamy]

I'm taking hubby and my own sax to compare it with so we should hear a difference hopefully 🙏

Record yourself as well - then you can hear from the other side of the horn what he hears

 

[teen37]

Record yourself as well - then you can hear from the other side of the horn what he hears

Ah ok. Will do, thanks 👍☺️

 

[Stephen Howard]

I'm taking hubby and my own sax to compare it with so we should hear a difference hopefully 🙏

You're gonna compare your hubby to a Selmer tenor?
Does he know? Is he worried???

 

[Colin the Bear]

I've just seen some pictures of the Supreme. Very pretty.

 

[teen37]

You're gonna compare your hubby to a Selmer tenor?
Does he know? Is he worried???

😂😂😂 I won't tell him if you don't 🤔😂😂

 

[teen37]

I've just seen some pictures of the Supreme. Very pretty.

If I start comparing him to a supreme he'll get ideas of grandeur 🙄😂

 

[Trigger]

As with most horns it’s down to the set up , I’ve lots of horns from vintage selmers , to modern yanagisawa’s , custom raw etc , but I was intrigued to see how eastern music horns played so I bought a a couple to try a dragon tenor in a black finish and a Matt gold curved soprano , both horns play really well , would I give up my more expensive horns probably not but that’s because I already own them , would I buy a new supreme NO I wasn’t that impressed with the alto I tried at sax.uk , and for the price they were asking I wanted to feel something different with a wow factor ,
To be honest most of us have the horn we can afford and what we feel comfortable with . The eastern music horns are good horns , it’s just the badge on it most people don’t like once you’ve got past that you begin to realise that price and branding aren’t everything