Saxophones Selmer no longer supreme!

[teen37]

If you feel you're rushing a bit then go with that feeling. It's 'only' a saxophone...and at two grand that's a LOT of 'only'.
It took me ten years to find my 'next tenor'...and that's because the damned thing hadn't been invented yet.

Like I said before, there'll be other opportunities. There always are.

You are completely right about the two grand being a lot of "only" it's definitely a considered purchase for me and I want it to be right.
Your advice has been so helpful really, huge thanks, it's given me a lot to think on going forward 🙏😘

 

[Tonehole]

Exactly my understanding too.
Asian « fantasy name » horns are good enough these days to support a professional use.
Those promoting them never need an overhaul, they just move to the latest release.
Pete Christlieb and Gerald Albright have been playing and promoting an Asia made US brand for … 3 decades ?
Rien de neuf sous le soleil ☀️.

Yep I agree to a certain degree about Taiwan built horns.

I am comfortable on my SAT Jupiter Artists they have performed well above expectations for 15 years. My tech was impressed when he did the 1st tear down on them after 13 years of hard use and abuse.

Just bought a SAT set of Cannonballs and am enjoying them. I didn't want to drop Albright model money on them got them 2nd hand very lightly used. But I expect many trouble free years from them once set up to my taste. At the price I bought them I expect them to hold their value as the finish is a desirable one. As Trigger mentions they have a WOW factor being Black Ruby. They fit with the style of music I am playing these days.

Cannonball have upgraded the cases on the new horns as well not Selmer flight case level but very serviceable.

My Series III tenor is being lightly used if at all these days and my Ref 54 is now up for sale It will likely be sold for one or two K less than what I paid for my SAT Cannonballs. 🤔

 

[Trigger]

This will make people think twice about Chinese made horns , I was fortunate enough to be at the Dave Koz after party last night and we got to talk about what he thought of the ishomori saxophone factory in Japan to which he said was amazing, he then said there are some great horns coming out of china and I should keep a eye on them, he had nothing but praise for them ,

 

[lig]

This will make people think twice about Chinese made horns , I was fortunate enough to be at the Dave Koz after party last night and we got to talk about what he thought of the Ishimori saxophone factory in Japan to which he said was amazing, he then said there are some great horns coming out of china and I should keep a eye on them, he had nothing but praise for them ,

I've had an Ishimori tenor since late 2022. Since that time my VI and SA80 III tenors have stayed home. It's that good.

I suspect a good deal of what makes the Ishimori excellent is the setup but so far it's been outstanding all around. Sound, keywork, response and being shallow - looks. 🙂


Just took out the SA 80 III in preparation to sell it since it should be played.

For a short time I had a Buffet 400 tenor for a beater/backup/sketchy club axe (a Chinese SA 80 copy basically ) and it wasn't bad at all.

Not in the same league as an Ishimori imo but serviceable for a sub $2,000 horn brand new.

 

[teen37]

This will make people think twice about Chinese made horns , I was fortunate enough to be at the Dave Koz after party last night and we got to talk about what he thought of the ishomori saxophone factory in Japan to which he said was amazing, he then said there are some great horns coming out of china and I should keep a eye on them, he had nothing but praise for them ,

Just had a quick look on UK sites but can't find any saxs just reeds so maybe not available here in the UK yet? 🤷 Saw a pic though and I would agree, she looks beautiful 😍👌

 

[Pete Effamy]

Just had a quick look on UK sites but can't find any saxs just reeds so maybe not available here in the UK yet? 🤷 Saw a pic though and I would agree, she looks beautiful 😍👌

Ishimori have the name Woodstone - Ishimori Woodstone. Stocked by Dawkes.

I have an alto. Very comparable to my Mk 6.

 

[teen37]

Ishimori have the name Woodstone - Ishimori Woodstone. Stocked by Dawkes

OK really, I'm looking now but have only found reviews and history of ishimori

Just found them.. They look very pretty 😍

 

[Pete Effamy]

OK really, I'm looking now but have only found reviews and history of ishimori

Oh! Looks like they stopped.

 

[jazzdoh]

This will make people think twice about Chinese made horns , I was fortunate enough to be at the Dave Koz after party last night and we got to talk about what he thought of the ishomori saxophone factory in Japan to which he said was amazing, he then said there are some great horns coming out of china and I should keep a eye on them, he had nothing but praise for them ,

I am not surprised, it's happening the same with cars, China is flooding the market with very nice cars cheaper than the rest of the competition and squeezing the market.

 

[thomsax]

Who and where are music instruments going to be made in the future? If we need music instruments? We talked about that at our music meetings. One guy in the band had been traveling around in world to make different stuffs. He said:

- Japan? They still have thier hierarki .... .

- India? The religion ........ .

- South America? interesting region. We understand each other. We already have technology transfer and a long tradition with exchange.

- China? So far the best country/region. A project could be a complete disaster in the beginning. After some years and several visits, they listened and learned. They are a little bit like a Scandinavian. You say what's good and what you want to become better. They like a funny story (dirty joke) and the next time we saw each other they had a funny story for me.

It's the other things around when making a saxophone thats important.

Are the days days gone when our saxes were made by local instrument makers? Probably.



On the other side they are some small saxophone makers still in business.

View: https://youtu.be/5pySkpXI6_Q?si=EbQcYyXzXrF2Px6Y

 

[JayeNM]

This will make people think twice about Chinese made horns , I was fortunate enough to be at the Dave Koz after party last night and we got to talk about what he thought of the ishomori saxophone factory in Japan to which he said was amazing, he then said there are some great horns coming out of china and I should keep a eye on them, he had nothing but praise for them ,

Absolutely, but the really good ones, new, are not by any means cheaply priced.

There are two things going on in this thread, two parallel conversations ....

1) put in a vacuum, leaving aside all current sociopolitical economic contexts we all are enduring....has China at this point actually been able to produce and market horns AS GOOD as Selmer, France (the company ostensibly still considered the team to beat). Answer =yes. Which is good, very good.
Yes, Selmer no longer reigns Supreme. Not only in quality, but their myth has now been punctured on a wider musician scale, popularly speaking. They discontinued the 80, their most popular seller for the past few decades, created a model which they considered 'affordable' but which has NOT really ever gotten glowing reviews and has not all 'caught on', then replaced the 54 with a model so absurdly priced that it is arguably a product which isn't even trying to secure a serious corner of the sax market. So, yeah....decisions like that should get just desserts.

But also

2) people are selling their grail horns (the epitome model being the VI) and buying and using (relatively) inexpensive asian horns (new or used) to replace them.
This...is an 'out of the vacuum' dynamic.
IOW the reason, or one primary reason, for this is survival, practicality, etc.

It isn't necessarily reflecting that their reasonably priced Chinese replacement is 'as good as' the grail it replaced. It is reflecting that they are satisfied with it in doing what they need it to do.

I doubt greatly if Alexander had no hor$e in this race and someone insisted 'here, you gotta play this BetterSax 100% of the time, your main horn'....he would tell them to ...well, you know....

 

[JayeNM]

Who and where are music instruments going to be made in the future? If we need music instruments? We talked about that at our music meetings. One guy in the band had been traveling around in world to make different stuffs. He said:

- Japan? They still have thier hierarki .... .

- India? The religion ........ .

- South America? interesting region. We understand each other. We already have technology transfer and a long tradition with exchange.

- China? So far the best country/region. A project could be a complete disaster in the beginning. After some years and several visits, they listened and learned. They are a little bit like a Scandinavian. You say what's good and what you want to become better. They like a funny story (dirty joke) and the next time we saw each other they had a funny story for me.

It's the other things around when making a saxophone thats important.

Are the days days gone when our saxes were made by local instrument makers? Probably.

View attachment 37912

On the other side they are some small saxophone makers still in business.

View: https://youtu.be/5pySkpXI6_Q?si=EbQcYyXzXrF2Px6Y

Indonesia and Vietnam already also produce....subcontracted out of Japan, quite likely China as well....

 

[JayeNM]

I don't know exactly what it is, but I've had a few brands over the years that include King, Selmer, Corton, Yanagisawa,Yamaha, Martin, Buescher Keilworth, Grassi.
If I can only have one horn it would have to be my Selmer to reduce the FOMO to its minimum. But I don't think FOMO is the right expression actually, perhaps I just mean the most satisfying singular choice for me.
You can look at a saxophone dispassionately as a necessary tool or you can throw many more things in to the equation.
As hobby players are likely romancing about their influences, so there should always be room for a Conn 10 (notably left out of this type of conversation regularly as people prefer to cite selmer as the dying enemy every single time) Old King, Buescher or Selmer etc. You'll never see Ben Webster playing a P Mauriat with a SYOS mouthpiece. Without suggesting that would be possible if he were around today, what he did back then still means something to people today.
A pro on tour has a different criteria and may be worried about what may happen to something more unique and of high value opting for something entirely different.
I can't say if a sax like 'Better sax', 'Bauhaus Walstien' or 'Jehrico' etc wouldn't be every bit as good to play or maintain as a long established top brand sax.
But I can say, something is missing in ownership experience for me.
I appreciate hand made element and craftsmanship, ornate features, classic designs while others wont care.
On new instruments the fake aging and unlacquered look are simply out there to try to catch that side or the market. To me that is very misguided and in the case of unlacquered, has nothing to do with tone preference, others may love it and argue that point.
Endorsement is also another red herring regarding new horns.
I have enough experience to understand household name players can be seduced into endorsement and say all the right things about the brand but not all of them feel the same way in the longer term. Just watch YouTube and note the dates of performance and often you'll see them using something else later on. Another word on YouTube and all things web wide, remember you can say what you like and it can be viewed by as many or as few people as search for such.
Fan boys and haters.
I say play what pleases you within your budget.
So if you are chucking out your Selmer I'll take it.

Great post, BTW.

Intangibles vs. Tangibles.