Saxophones Saxophones, rarely discussed

[PigSquealer]

Holton is best because they are rarely discussed 😌

 

[Ghr9204]

Maybe this reflects a rarely discussed sax? It is in the Café sales section:

Saxophone FS - **Rare 1956 Ida Maria Grassi “Jade Roller” Vintage Tenor Saxophone**

**Rare 1956 Ida Maria Grassi “Jade Roller” Vintage Tenor Saxophone** For sale is a **1956 Ida Maria Grassi Jade Roller tenor saxophone**, a fantastic example of a vintage Italian-made saxophone with plenty of character and history. I am selling as I have been keeping it as my back up horn for...

cafesaxophone.com

This is a genuine **1950s Grassi Jade Roller**, and is an excellent opportunity for a player or collector looking for something a little different from the more commonly seen American vintage saxophones.

Instrument Details

Maker: Ida Maria Grassi
Model: Jade Roller
Instrument: Tenor Saxophone
Year: 1956
Country: Italy
Finish: Vintage matt finish patina

(Inserted using Café BB Code):

 

[Grumps]

Not surprised to see a discussion about rarely talked about horns morph into Mark VI monotony. Now where's my F.A. Buescher American Triumph? That's really a Martin...

 

[jcn664]

Buffet crampons "evette and schaeffer"

 

[jcn664]

Saxophone stencils halari made by Raymond Dubois

 

[jcn664]

"octave system" is patent by dubois with neck,

This horns has 4 patents by Dubois

 

[jcn664]

 

[jcn664]

Very cheap and very not common horns

 

[Woodpad]

Even worse, I think we only talked about altos.

And what about Pierret Artiste and the likes? The Pierrets are absolutely beautiful players and to look at.

What’s that ? Some kind of French artisan baguette ?

Pierret made me famous for having the biggest vibrator in the street. though it is an alto. Excellent saxophones except for altisimo.

 

[jcn664]

Pierret made me famous for having the biggest vibrator in the street. though it is an alto. Excellent saxophones except for altisimo.

I've got only curved soprano Pierret, i didn't know Pierret made this horn

 

[LostCircuits]

What’s that ? Some kind of French artisan baguette ?

See!

 

[lig]

It's a shame you didn't understand the point.

Does being an excellent saxophone automatically make it the *best* saxophone?

If we apply the same logic to cars, the Lamborghini would be the best car in the world simply because it's iconic—yet it's known for being mechanically very mediocre: unreliable and poorly built.

The argument that "it's iconic, so it's the best" is completely and utterly wrong.

Yes, the Mark VI is an iconic and excellent saxophone—I never said otherwise, except when you twist my words.

It is the most popular, but that doesn't make it the best.

I think I see the problem. Clearly you have me mistaken for someone else.

I've never once stated that the MK VI is the best saxophone.



I do love many horns aside from the VI. You're very good about posting photos from your vast collection. Really nice stuff.

As a peace token - from my modest collection here's a horn that I feel is not accorded proper due.

The King Zephyr Special. Essentially an early Super 20. The mother of pearl key touches and inlays and the engraving and the elegant key guards are things that I really love.

 

[Ghr9204]

Now where's my F.A. Buescher American Triumph? That's really a Martin...

Perhaps it's show and tell time with some photos along with a few of its fine points regarding yours? 😉

Even worse, I think we only talked about altos.

There is not a reason why this can't be expanded. 😎

 

[jcn664]

I think I see the problem. Clearly you have me mistaken for someone else.

I've never once stated that the MK VI is the best saxophone.



I do love many horns aside from the VI. You're very good about posting photos from your vast collection. Really nice stuff.

As a peace token - from my modest collection here's a horn that I feel is not accorded proper due.

The King Zephyr Special. Essentially an early Super 20. The mother of pearl key touches and inlays and the engraving and the elegant key guards are things that I really love.

View attachment 37660

I'm peace with you, but don't confond two thing,

Iconic don't mean the best
Iconic and excellent are not opposite too,

You talk the history of mark 6 and the great story
But i talk the myth around the false fact

You don't play better only because you play mark 6
Mark 6 isn't the best horn, probably is the best for you, or your favorite okay, but not the best

I try and test many horn, if i haven't mark 6 is for many reason

1) The price, so expensive for that, i'm okay to spend 8-10k for mezzo soprano, tipped bell, or perfect curved or another rarity

But if i have now 8k, i will pay only saxellino, or curved sopranino Rampone and cazzani.

2) mark 6 isn't the best horn (i test many mark 6) and i fell nothing, yes it's cool and yes it's excellent quality, but i feel nothing, it's not fun to play,

The Mark VI lacks flexibility and volatility; I like a sax that’s playful, that has a bit of a treacherous side.

That’s why, in that regard, the King Saxello is better than the Mark VI.

 

[jcn664]

I think I see the problem. Clearly you have me mistaken for someone else.

I've never once stated that the MK VI is the best saxophone.



I do love many horns aside from the VI. You're very good about posting photos from your vast collection. Really nice stuff.

As a peace token - from my modest collection here's a horn that I feel is not accorded proper due.

The King Zephyr Special. Essentially an early Super 20. The mother of pearl key touches and inlays and the engraving and the elegant key guards are things that I really love.

View attachment 37660

Orrrr sadly isn' t silver Sonic full Pearl (the fully rare)

 

[lig]

I'm peace with you, but don't confond two thing,

Iconic don't mean the best
Iconic and excellent are not opposite too,

I never said iconic = best

You talk the history of mark 6 and the great story
But i talk the myth around the false fact

You keep calling the VI a mirage or myth. That is patently untrue.

You don't play better only because you play mark 6
Mark 6 isn't the best horn, probably is the best for you, or your favorite okay, but not the best

Again - never did I claim the VI is the best or that I played any better because of playing a VI.

I try and test many horn, if i haven't mark 6 is for many reason

1) The price, so expensive for that, i'm okay to spend 8-10k for mezzo soprano, tipped bell, or perfect curved or another rarity

I’m happy for you that you’re ok with spending $8-10K on a F-mezzo. Good for you.

But if i have now 8k, i will pay only saxellino, or curved sopranino Rampone and cazzani.


2) mark 6 isn't the best horn (i test many mark 6) and i fell nothing, yes it's cool and yes it's excellent quality, but i feel nothing, it's not fun to play,

The Mark VI lacks flexibility and volatility; I like a sax that’s playful, that has a bit of a treacherous side.

If you cannot play a VI with flexibility and in a “volatile” fashion it’s you, not the horn.

That’s why, in that regard, the King Saxello is better than the Mark VI.

I have a Saxello. It’s quite a thing to behold. And I really don’t like VI sopranos very much anyway. 🙂

I’m going to assume English isn’t your first language because you clearly are misunderstanding quite a bit here.

To your other point - there’s no such thing as a SilverSonic Zephyr Special.

That would be a Super 20.

And my Zephyr Special in fact does have full pearls and the sterling silver neck. What it does not have is the silver bell of the SilverSonic Super 20.

 

[jcn664]

I have a Saxello. It’s quite a thing to behold. And I really don’t like VI sopranos very much anyway. 🙂

I’m going to assume English isn’t your first language because you clearly are misunderstanding quite a bit here.

To your other point - there’s no such thing as a SilverSonic Zephyr Special.

That would be a Super 20.

And my Zephyr Special in fact does have full pearls and the sterling silver neck. What it does not have is the silver bell of the SilverSonic Super 20.

Ah my bad, i think it was super 20,

The zephyr isn't very popular, not very common, in my opinion, this modele Zephyr suffers from being in the shadow of the Super 20 model.

 

[jcn664]

Ah my bad, i think it was super 20,

The zephyr isn't very popular, not very common, in my opinion, this modele Zephyr suffers from being in the shadow of the Super 20 model.

Underrated the zephyr

 

[Ghr9204]

Iconic don't mean the best; Iconic and excellent are not opposite too,

If iconic means iCONNic like my recent Conn 18M student alto, then I would understand. (I speak facetiously.) 😀 However it doesn't meet the definition of rarely discussed.

I’m going to assume English isn’t your first language because you clearly are misunderstanding quite a bit here.

@jcn664 is French. In translating to English, I gather that some of the expressiveness of the French language gets lost.

 

[skeller047]

Well...respectfully you sorta deserve to get quasi flamed at least ....because this isn't really quite 100% accurate. One can argue the perception of Conn and Buescher (pre buyout)'going downhill' in the 60's ( perception only....reality is bunk to that) certainly, so it is not unfair to say popularly speaking, the glory days were over....but the S20 remained a top notch pro player and quite popular into the 70's. So you are ersatz there.

This I know only because over the decades whenever I came across a person who had actually purchased their 6 in the mid 60's-mid 70's....I asked them what other horns were in the running/had they tried/considered (mind you these were the days when music shops in major municipalities stocked the top brands so they were available for playtesting). The S20 was always the one, or one of a few, in their answer...I cannot remember when it was omitted from the answer.. Understandably. Its tone was great, its intonation was great and the keywork and ergos were the best 'non-Selmer" style mechanisms of its time, IMHO. So it WAS there, a market contender....

That aside....to say the 6 was 'the only professional model'....again, that is pretty subjective and was really more desire/perception than reality'. I still believe that, as it cemented its rep in the 50s, and by the end of the decage most jazz and classical pros had migrated to them, the rep was established. Simply put, people wanted to play and own what the greats owned.
Now, again....from the BA thru the 6, it was a damn great design, really....so that popularity had a foundation. If it had not been excellent, less folks would have bought them.

OK, I was generalizing, point taken about the Kings, though they did follow Conn down that mucky path to the bottom eventually. And became one, legally at least…

However, I stand by my point about the only professional model. Regardless of whether this is ACTUALLY true, it was certainly the attitude in the ‘60s and ‘70s. I became officially became a pro in 1967, when I joined the musician’s union, but I knew many pros before that. As I travelled the country in the next decade, living in both LA and Boston for a couple years each, I have to say this was the prevailing attitude. The Mark VI was the weapon of choice for the vast majority of people who made all or part of their living by playing saxophone. That all changed when the Mark VII came out, as you well know; many pros did not upgrade their instruments because the Mark VII just wasn’t as good as the VI.

@jcn664 - I admire your insistence that the Mark VI isn’t “the best”. I actually agree with you, there are several things about it I would change. I’m still keeping my Mark VI tenor and SBA alto though…

It was the default choice of professional saxophonists for 2 decades. Just like Buffet has been for clarinetists. Just like Haynes was for flutists back then, especially doublers. This is not to say that there aren’t or weren’t other choices, and some musicians did actually make other choices. But most pro players in that time played Haynes flutes, Buffet clarinets and Selmer saxophones. That’s not a myth, that’s a fact.