Playing the saxophone Rock 'n Roll Saxophone

"I see you included Johnny Ferreira"

Thanks Dave for posting his link. Johnny has an extensive background and is always helpful. Old school roof raiser well up in the PA mix where he belongs!

:sax:
Yes, when searching for tutorials when I first got a sax, one of his videos came up on YouTube as suggestion and I thought "this is what I hear in my head when I think Saxophone!".
If I could play a three note riff in his style, I'd be very happy!
 
"now for my question, what are some good examples to listen to for some real rock & roll sax? and what is it what makes it Rock & Roll?"

I have 7 LP with Jr Walker, 6 with King Curtis, 4 with Noble Watts ...... So these players are important to me. Jr Walker was more or less just playing with his band, king Curtis had his own band but recorded and played with lots of artists. Noble Watts was also on his own but recorded with other as well. And if I take a look in the single box I find Jr Walker, Bill Black's Combo (Ace Connon, Charlie Chalmers, Martin Willis, Robert Gladney ... all saxmen), Johnny and the Hurricane (Francis Paris tenorsax) ...... .

The guys I listended to when I started to play saxophone were John Fogerty, Bobby Keys and Clarence Clemons. Later David Woodford, Don Wise, Andrew Clark and Sax Gordon became impotant. And Joe Sublett as well.

Steve Douglas or King Curtis are the guys that I think are Rock & Roll Saxophone personalized. They played and covered most styles. So many good rocksax players to listen to .... .

Steve Douglas playing an instrumental. The song is built like a schlager that we heard on the radio in the late 50's or early 60's. Somekind of easy listening, heavy vibrato, piercing tenor ........ .
View: https://youtu.be/WIB2F47n-Hc


 
Early Rock & Roll is so hard to understand. Some Rock & Roll songs were recorded before Rock & Roll was a broad concept. I think there were lots of Hanky Panky in early Rock & Roll. I've been searching for the birth of Rock & Roll for many years.

For some month ago I read about Litte Richards song "Tutti Frutti". Richard Penniman a k a Little Richard had some recording sessions booked at Cosimo Matassas J&M Recoding Studio in New Orleans for Specaility Records based in California. The first version of "Tutti Frutti" knocked everyone. The music, beat, vocal, tempo ....... was there. But lyrics that Little Richard sang was not "housetrained". It was a lesson in basic instructions for *******. A local sogwriter, Dorothy LaBostrie, was called to clean up the song. Fithteen minutes before the the session time was over she handed over the lyrics to Little Richard. It took them three takes. They recorded three versions. In the studio the had Earl Palmer (dr), Lee Allen (ts), Red Tyler (bs) ..... but there were more musicians. The musicians were paid by hour. No royalties!?!?!?!? Now Tutti Frutti had two composers; LaBostrie-Penniman. Dorothy LaBostrie just wrote a couple of more songs. One was "You Can Have My Houseband But Don't Mess With My Man" that Irma Thomas recorded. According to LaBoistrie Specialty Records owner Art Rupe offered Dorothy to buy her songs for $ 500.00 each. She refused and she also claimed that was the the reason she was banned from Chess and Atlantic. Tutti Frutti gave her c $ 5000.00 every third month. And the "last one" was $ 30 000. 00 just before she passed away in Atlanta in 2007. Art Rupe knew Carmel Records owner Joseph Lubinsky. An englishman born in London West End. He wrote "I'm Sending My Blessings" for Vera Lynn. Rupe wanted his song to be a succes on the white marked as well. So Lubinsky wrote a third version. Pat Boone was a succes on the white market. By then there were two names on the record label; La Bostrie-Tenniman.

pennimanwp1984.webp

said Little Richard in an interview in Washington Post in November 1984 written by Richard Harrington.

So who was Rock & Roll and who was playing Rock & Roll Saxophone? I'm not writing good or bad. But there was a huge differnce.
palmertf.webp

told Earl Palmer Tony Scherman, Down Beat, 2000.

Maybe it's the drums that is the differnce between R&B and Rock & Roll. The snare drum and beat 2 and 4 is important for RockSax players!?!?!?!

View: https://youtu.be/mji5G4AZD78


View: https://youtu.be/F68Z0sVVa7s
 
Early Rock & Roll is so hard to understand. Some Rock & Roll songs were recorded before Rock & Roll was a broad concept. I think there were lots of Hanky Panky in early Rock & Roll. I've been searching for the birth of Rock & Roll for many years.

For some month ago I read about Litte Richards song "Tutti Frutti". Richard Penniman a k a Little Richard had some recording sessions booked at Cosimo Matassas J&M Recoding Studio in New Orleans for Specaility Records based in California. The first version of "Tutti Frutti" knocked everyone. The music, beat, vocal, tempo ....... was there. But lyrics that Little Richard sang was not "housetrained". It was a lesson in basic instructions for *******. A local sogwriter, Dorothy LaBostrie, was called to clean up the song. Fithteen minutes before the the session time was over she handed over the lyrics to Little Richard. It took them three takes. They recorded three versions. In the studio the had Earl Palmer (dr), Lee Allen (ts), Red Tyler (bs) ..... but there were more musicians. The musicians were paid by hour. No royalties!?!?!?!? Now Tutti Frutti had two composers; LaBostrie-Penniman. Dorothy LaBostrie just wrote a couple of more songs. One was "You Can Have My Houseband But Don't Mess With My Man" that Irma Thomas recorded. According to LaBoistrie Specialty Records owner Art Rupe offered Dorothy to buy her songs for $ 500.00 each. She refused and she also claimed that was the the reason she was banned from Chess and Atlantic. Tutti Frutti gave her c $ 5000.00 every third month. And the "last one" was $ 30 000. 00 just before she passed away in Atlanta in 2007. Art Rupe knew Carmel Records owner Joseph Lubinsky. An englishman born in London West End. He wrote "I'm Sending My Blessings" for Vera Lynn. Rupe wanted his song to be a succes on the white marked as well. So Lubinsky wrote a third version. Pat Boone was a succes on the white market. By then there were two names on the record label; La Bostrie-Tenniman.

View attachment 19137
said Little Richard in an interview in Washington Post in November 1984 written by Richard Harrington.

So who was Rock & Roll and who was playing Rock & Roll Saxophone? I'm not writing good or bad. But there was a huge differnce.
View attachment 19138
told Earl Palmer Tony Scherman, Down Beat, 2000.

Maybe it's the drums that is the differnce between R&B and Rock & Roll. The snare drum and beat 2 and 4 is important for RockSax players!?!?!?!

View: https://youtu.be/mji5G4AZD78


View: https://youtu.be/F68Z0sVVa7s
Good research Sir.
That version by Pat Boon is an inexcusable insult to popular music! The sax break almost redeems it.
 
"Good research Sir.
That version by Pat Boon is an inexcusable insult to popular music! The sax break almost redeems it."


My early research indicated that Dave Pell played the solo on this one (Boone's discography) so I sent an email to Mr. Pell. He replied that he would get back with me which never happened. (CD notes; "Billy Vaughn (saxophone, hand claps, bells); Jewell L. Grant, Julian C. Matlock, Dave Pell, Joseph Krechter, Julian "Matty" Matlock, Gene Cipriano, Mahlon Clark, John Johnson , Harold Hugh Ehrmann, Joe Kretcher, John Rotella, Paul Horn Quintet, Babe Russin, Benny Carter , Justin Gordon, Wilbur Schwartz (saxophone)")

Many of the big band and jazz players did session work for the studios. For most of them, the Rock & Roll and R&B of the day was not their thing but the Dot sessions paid and times were changing for the big band players. Less gigs. And some did not want their name associated with the hit records. Justin Gordon was an exception but he was on "Sail Along Silvery Moon" (love it) and some other nice ballads.

For some of us who started playing in the mid 50's and really enjoyed the Little Richard hits (with Lee Allen) along with a lot of R&B hits, the sax break on Boones' cover was a joke. Boone also covered a couple more and they sold very well and were in the Top 40. No disrespect meant but for some of us "teens" Pat Boone's covers of the Little Richard hits just did not happen except for the goodie two shoes kids.

I don't recall us discussing what Rock & Roll was back in the mid 50's. If it had high energy, rattled the bass speaker on the jukebox and got us on the dance floor it was fun. Likewise with the R&B hits. And our garage bands picked up the hits.

Some adults hated the new music. My mother asked me why I liked that music (especially R&B) as I would go to sleep listening to Wolfman Jack late at night on the radio spinning the hit records.

Times were changing for many teens. Many of us did not relate to the 40's swing and early 50's hits. Bill Haley's live concerts caused near riots in England and the US and "Rock Around The Clock" sounded the alarm in the movie "Blackboard Jungle". The shot heard around the world. That started it for many of us.

In later years I was at a summer high school sock hop and the "Twist" by Checker had not worked it's way from Jersey to Florida. A young girl was visiting from Jersey and had the 45 and she and I started doing the twist dance. I was familiar with it. The teens gathered around us and enjoyed it. The chaperons told us to stop and took the record off of the record player. We later played it again and danced again with others joining in and we were asked to leave the school sock hop 😀

At any rate, as the Stones stated "It's Only Rock And Roll But I Like it" :sax:
 
Sam Butera? Oh what a strong player and influence on many of us! Went to a double feature movie in 57 and one movie featured Louis Prima and the band. I had been playing for 1 year. Rock & Roll movies were very popular at the time. Mr. Butera blew me away. Never forgot his stage energy and style. He was still kickin' in Vegas with The Wildest many years later
:clapping:
 
By the way, regarding Lee Allen. I spoke to Alvin Tyler about the sessions that they did with Little Richard. Mr. Tyler stated that Mr. Allen played a plastic reed and his lower lip would sometimes bleed from the high energy session work with Little Richard. I was unaware that plastic reeds were on the market in those years.
 
By the way, regarding Lee Allen. I spoke to Alvin Tyler about the sessions that they did with Little Richard. Mr. Tyler stated that Mr. Allen played a plastic reed and his lower lip would sometimes bleed from the high energy session work with Little Richard. I was unaware that plastic reeds were on the market in those years.
I have some early plastic reeds. "Solotone" (Pat.Pend). I guess reeds from the late 50's?? The one to the left is a clarinette reed.
Solotone.webp
 
Hi all,

I've been asked by a local band to come and record something with them for their new CD (with their own music..)

you've probably guessed it by the title... A Rock & Roll track in G, I'll be getting the backing track in a few days..

now for my question, what are some good examples to listen to for some real rock & roll sax? and what is it what makes it Rock & Roll?

regards

Koen

(for countering the cultural bias and expanding the level of feedback i'll be posting this on an other forum too)
Bobby Keys played with the Rolling Stoned sorry Stones
 
what are some good examples to listen to for some real rock & roll sax? and what is it what makes it Rock & Roll?
A thread from 2013 but still actual!?!?!

The saxes were important to early Rock & Roll. They made Rock & Roll bigger or louder. Big and loud it's the dna of Rock & Roll. R&R was to create energy on stage and transfer the energy to the audience. Can be done today as well on Pubrock gigs/gatherings.

I think a Rock & Roll song have .....
.... lyrics. Easy lyrics with a more modern touch and with the necessary repetition.
.... the drummer is playing "straight eights"
.... the horns (often saxes) followed/reinforced the up-straight bass so the make the sound/music bigger.
.... the riffs/licks from horns is IMO, more important than the 8-bar tenor sax solo.
 
Here is a Rock & Roll sample with some big bari honking. "Back In USA", the song that The Beach Boys" took and re-named it to Surfing USA ( Chuck Berry won the battle and had The Beach Boys to write out a cheque payable to Mr Charles Edward Anderson Berry.) Is not often yo hear Clarence Clemons playing a solo on baritone.
View: https://youtu.be/uI5MSDRt1xY?si=yfSaSCuMyomx-GZ7
 

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