Pretentious alto vs tenor waffle..

[jadoube]

TomMapfumo wrote:

Hi there!

I have amended my post accordingly, but it would also include what someone aspires to/is attracted to - so maybe your wife fancies a bit of 'rough' 😛

Kind regards
Tom 8)

Spot on edit. 😉

 

[Bobby G]

Who was it who said Hendrix = genius while Clapton = journeyman? I must say I agree about Clapton, the whole Eric is God thing really passed me by, and his later stuff just leaves me cold, it can be very bland to my ears. You want 'soulful' white blues/rock guitarists, I'd suggest Peter Green or Paul Kossoff.

In a 'soul' vein, have you heard Seal's version of 'A Change is Gonna Come'? Listen to that back-to-back with Sam Cooke's version and tell me which one has got soul.

I appear to be somewhere between a sensitive middle class male and a strong working class male. Where does my love of Eric Dolphy's (again, to my ears if not yours) bass clarinet playing put me...? :S

 

[Moz]

AlanU wrote:

I can't sing Jerusalem all the way through either.

I can. We were taught it in school some 45 years ago now and I've never forgotten the words, odd really. Mind you, I can also recite the Lord's Prayer backwards and in German, I find that useful in party conversation if I want to be alone! :laugh:

Moz

 

[TomMapfumo]

Hi Bobby!

A Bass Clarinet is a Middle Class Tenor Sax 😛

Kind regards
Tom 8)

 

[Semiquaver]

AlanU wrote:


If you took Menuhin's sheet music away he'd stop. Like he was a technically good playing machine doing what was written, whereas Grapelli understood and felt the music.

Alan,

I think this is a little unfair. To suggest that Menuhin did not understand or had no emotion in his music just because he could not improvise ignores the skills he did have in his playing.

Classical music can be played with a great deal of emotional interpretation just as a jazz artist interprets the harmonies in a chord progression.

They were both great musicians in there own field.

 

[Jules]

Bobby G wrote:


I appear to be somewhere between a sensitive middle class male and a strong working class male. Where does my love of Eric Dolphy's (again, to my ears if not yours) bass clarinet playing put me...? :S

And what about Nick Drake- more soul than a gospel choir and about as posh as they get!?

 

[TomMapfumo]

Are you confusing "soulfulness" with "class"? 😛

I would argue that "soulfulness" is a product of identity, desire and aspiration (if that is pretentious enough for you 😛 ). Class is incidental to the argument, IMHO.

Now get on with some work!!
Kind regards
Tom 8)

 

[Jules]

TomMapfumo wrote:
Are you confusing "soulfulness" with "class"? 😛

I would argue that "soulfulness" is a product of identity, desire and aspiration (if that is pretentious enough for you 😛 ). Class is incidental to the argument, IMHO.

Now get on with some work!!
Kind regards
Tom 8)

I'm not confusing anything, i'm just producing a random, stream of conciousness waffle (as per usual!) 8| :cry:

 

[peedee]

Hi all you musical intellectuals, what knows not a lot.
I have just read through all the comments on this thread, and would like to add my 2p worth.
There seemed to be a suggestion from one quarter that playing music from ear, getting the 'feel' of the piece, was superior to only being able to play from dots.
I'm not one to claim 'superiority' over anyone for anything, but if we want to talk in this way, I would suggest that a musician that only plays from dots, is superior to one who can't. The 'dotty' musician also plays with emotion and feeling for the music, and does not necessarily play the music verbatim, that would make it lifeless. The only exception I would make is military etc marching bands, Americans aside, who have to play 'straight, strict tempo',
so, what I am saying is, playing from music, does not mean that you don't have feeling, or can show it in your playing. Yehudi Menuhin was just as able to play f rom his dots with feeling, and emotion, as was Stephan Grapelli.
Also, what about the blank bars, where improvisation is required, I wonder what the 'dot' player does then?
I rest my case, bloody heavy it is too as it contains my working class tenor :S

 

[Lockjaw]

Just to clarify as this is creating some emotion... I'm not sure where this dots vs improvisation line came from with regards to Menuhin, but it wasn't me! If you check back, my mention of Menuhin was in comparison to a guy called Jascha Heifetz, who also played classical music from dots. But Heifetz played with a passion that sounded like he was in danger of ripping the stings from his fiddle. He didn't of course, it was actually played with extreme control. But personally I feel his playing of the great classical fiddle concertos was more impassioned than Menuhin's or indeed any other fiddler since recording began.

I certainly didn't mean to suggest that dot-players are in anyway inferior! Because I don't believe that for a minute. Phew!

 

[peedee]

Now, did I mention you Simon, no names, no packdrill.
I can't remember who said what, but it was a general inferance somewhere along the line. :erm: :S

 

[AlanU]

Moz, I didn't mean I couldn't remember the words.

I meant what I said, that I couldn't sing to the end of 'Jerusalem'.
I usually crumble round about 'nor shall my sword sleep in my hand'.

 

[Jules]

Back to tom's theory persona/class theory- where does my musical saw fit in!

......and do my curved soprano/flute have a different spin put on them due to the fact both are being used in a folkie context?

"who know, all i know is i'm sat in the middle of the lounge floor as a toddler builds a brio train track round me!" :cry:

I've also just come up with the phrase "Proletarian honkage" and felt a desire to write it down...

 

[TomMapfumo]

Now you're just being silly 😛

As you know curved soprano/flute are both sensitive/middle class female instruments, and folk music is a sensitive/middle class minority interest, so I would see it as in major conflict with any "proletarian honkage" that you undertake or aspire to - you must live near Brighton, or were given a "sensitive" male name when you were born or have experienced something equally traumatic 😛

Have a great day!
Lots of love
Tom

8)

 

[josh_johnson]

nachoman wrote:


"Proletarian honkage"
[/quoted

That's got to be a name of a tune in the future. Possibly arranged for the Gedling Brass Band.

 

[Jules]

TomMapfumo wrote:
Now you're just being silly 😛
you must live near Brighton, or were given a "sensitive" male name when you were born or have experienced something equally traumatic
8)

the theory is sound except for the fact I originate from Leeds, but am from a pretty bohemian/hippy background! :whistle: 8|

 

[TomMapfumo]

Originating in Leeds is obviously the "something equally traumatic" that I wondered about earlier

Next.......

 

[Jules]

Dr Tom's clinic is now closed! 🙁 :cry: :laugh:

 

[TomMapfumo]

Hi Nachoman!

The reality is anyone can make up all sorts of theories to explain things, and many can be quite plausible and possibly contain varying degrees of truth - this frequently happens in psychiatry, psychology and psychotherapy. For example there is frequent talk of people suffering mental health problems as a result of "Chemical Imbalance" - just a theory as there are no actual tests for chemical imbalance. Too often theories become facts with NO actual research or factual basis!

Soulfulness is, to my mind, a complex concept influenced by all sorts of things - as is identity, aspiration, taste and so on. I personally have found it difficult to "take to" playing Tenor Sax, and most preferably play Trumpet/Cornet/Flugelhorn, then Alto Sax, then Soprano Sax, then Tenor Sax when I reflect on it.

Hope you're not too screwed up by the above analysis - but you are, after all, a Northern B@%^*@d 😛

Kind regards
Tom 8)

 

[Djangette]

<agrees with Josh's comments

... desperately trying to get convo back onto track

For what it's worth (probably not much) - I was told tenor sax was the easiest to play but the most difficult to get a good tone on ... discuss lol

Personally I love the warm coffee/chocolate tones of the baritone, but I've heard alto and even soprano played lovely ... too many people play alto 'nasally' ... I've even heard bass sax played like an alto lol

It's not the instrument it's the musician innit? <awaits flak>