Saxophones Pork Tales: Saxophone Repair DIY Adventures.

Life around the barn.

Tales from a pig that likes to stick his nose into everything.

Paint that S. How difficult could it be ?

1) Search the net.
2) Find the color.
3) Order color.
4) Study task on University of YouTube, aka; For destruction by DYI presented by pro tech.

Do the cleaning & prep.

Paint and cleanup / detail the edges with hard cotton swabs. Sounds easy……

Yeah tha guy Matt makes it look easy.
Anyone remember your first experience cooking bacon crispy while still in the frying pan !

 

[PigSquealer]

Will you solder such shims to the barrels, or pillars? Or grow some more hands for reassembly, or hope to use HMP grease to stick it together for a few minutes, just until the rod goes...arrrgghhh 🙂

The process is easy 😉 Pictures below are from past project. I’ll post the actual York work later.

The distance spacers will be machined from plate or bar stock to the needs. Usually plate. End of barrel squared. Then soldered on barrel(s) with hot iron. Just tin both sides. Flux parts. Hold in position with wood clothes pin (or spit). Set iron high 700°f. Stab the heat on end for 10-12 seconds. Final ID reemed to fit in place.

Drill the hole first !

Holding the spare with arbor from Dremel tool. Spare is 0,750 x 4 mm OD, 2,48 ID

 

[mark_addy]

My version of that involved tiny BA washers, held to a linisher with the end of my finger. Did it get hot? Did they fly across the room? Oh yes 🙂 Your version is nice - I need to get over my fear of messing up hot stuff and get on with it. I haven't room to set up my tiny hobby lathe (something like a 'Fexispeed', if anyone is interested) at the moment, but that might come. Someone gave me the basic bed, tailstock and headstock and I built it up with countershaft and a treadmill motor and made accessories, for fun. It would be nice for clean small stuff like this, unlike the larger machine in my dirty shed.

 

[PigSquealer]

My version of that involved tiny BA washers, held to a linisher with the end of my finger. Did it get hot? Did they fly across the room? Oh yes 🙂 Your version is nice - I need to get over my fear of messing up hot stuff and get on with it. I haven't room to set up my tiny hobby lathe (something like a 'Fexispeed', if anyone is interested) at the moment, but that might come. Someone gave me the basic bed, tailstock and headstock and I built it up with countershaft and a treadmill motor and made accessories, for fun. It would be nice for clean small stuff like this, unlike the larger machine in my dirty shed.

Hah ! Shop fun 🤩
My $300 lathe was acquired POS during Covid. $100 was just for delivery. Spent months on the overhaul. Wouldn’t do that again.
Spindle head had broken/ missing teeth on gears. Transmission gearbox was packed in. Wiring, surprised I didn’t get electrocuted or had a fire. Carriage was +/- 1,0mm.
Material Size limit is 10” x 30”. 3/4” through head. Great size for shed use.

 

[mark_addy]

My shed lathe is similar, but a little smaller. I don't know if you ever do 'big' stuff on yours, but one of the most useful occasional additions to mine is a way-oversized 8" chuck. Not because I can use that capacity (by the time the jaws are out some way, they clout the (non-gap) bed) but because the large hole down the middle gets around the 3/4" limit inside the spindle, and holding / centering lumps up to about 3" dia gets much more straightforward.

I don't envy you sorting out a worn bed. Mine is common enough that scrap beds come up from time to time and I would probably try to find a less-bad one!

 

[PigSquealer]

I need to get over my fear of messing up hot stuff and get on with it.

In my teens…how’s that ?
In my twenties….ok I see.
In my thirties….that’s a bunch of BS, I can do better.
In my forty’s….crud, they were right.
In my fifty’s….this is the way.
After sixty….hell, let’s try that ! What’s the worst that can happen 🤪

I once said “ an expert is a person who’s failed enough times to know the difference. I’m no expert”.

I haven’t achieved enough failures to know all. Stuff happens. Fear is only the lack of understanding, information, experiences or knowledge. Such is life. My best suggestion. Do something. Review the task at hand and attack, Or seek help. Know when to ask for help….
My best learning experiences have come from failures. None lacking preparation studies, asking questions/ advice/ help.
Stuff happens.
Crafts are often best learned “hands on”. No matter how good the video, instructor, book or help on site. All senses need personal programming.
Tell me, how hot is hot to the touch ? 🤔 Hands of leather or dishpan hands ? Both are workers on their day off and fixing a sax.
It’s all small stuff. It’s a hunk of metal that someone made. It can be remade. Just takes time.
Onwards 👍

 

[PigSquealer]

Lathe TLC weekend.
@mark_addy after six years of use it was time for some needed maintenance. Gear change box and gears needed new oilite bearings years ago. I had purchased them but never got around to the installation.

Nothing to difficult. Just time consuming. About four hours with lunch & cleaning.

Brushed with graphite grease after picture.

The fun part is reinstalling the Leed screw back into the apron. The assembled part weighs about 22kg. Just hold in left hand and guide the screw in until it stops. Turn screw buy hand until it finds home.

 

[PigSquealer]

Ready to rock ! Much quieter too.

 

[mark_addy]

Very nice! It's funny seeing saxophones all around the place in this context (very clean - I am impressed (and ashamed 🙂 )).
I assume your leadscrew is English? If you don't have a 100-127 gear for metric conversion, but you do have an 80T idler, then 63/80 is very, very close to 100/127. I made some 63T - if it was the same DP (mine are 18 - looking again I think yours are a bit more beefy) I'd send you one.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/156505206970

It's nice having a slotted leadscrew for powerfeed, because you don't wear out the screw/half-nuts! I ought to have a look inside the Norton box on mine, but most of the noise comes from the tumbler gears, and the countershaft has issues too. But first, there's the car to look at. Oh dear.

 

[mizmar]

I do think it's unnatural not to have a washer or two, a nut and maybe one cog leftover, after a job like that 🙂

 

[PigSquealer]

Looking back at the old lathe restoration pictures confirms “it was not worth it”. Yes it works fine and accurate. Took too much time to service. I would have been better off buying new 11” x 30”. This was built in 1948 by Logan.

Above post. That gearbox & lead screw before cleaning pictured below.

Bearings & gears changed in apron.

This below is the inside of switch box. The metal box you have your hand on to turn it on & off.
All the wiring was replaced. Only lasted 72 years.

Motor disassembled cleaned and rewired. It was full of dirt & metal shavings.

 

[PigSquealer]

Very nice! It's funny seeing saxophones all around the place in this context (very clean - I am impressed (and ashamed 🙂 )).
I assume your leadscrew is English? If you don't have a 100-127 gear for metric conversion, but you do have an 80T idler, then 63/80 is very, very close to 100/127. I made some 63T - if it was the same DP (mine are 18 - looking again I think yours are a bit more beefy) I'd send you one.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/156505206970

It's nice having a slotted leadscrew for powerfeed, because you don't wear out the screw/half-nuts! I ought to have a look inside the Norton box on mine, but most of the noise comes from the tumbler gears, and the countershaft has issues too. But first, there's the car to look at. Oh dear.

Thanks, work area needs some clearing out.
Yes English units. Transposing gear for metric is available as 37/47. Stud is 24. What I have is a 1948 model 820, 10”.

There’s a mix on stud of 48T & 24T. Need to look in book for the combinations.

That’s a beautiful cast gear you’re making ! Casting is something I’ve never done. I’m impressed. How are you cutting the teeth ?

 

[PigSquealer]

I do think it's unnatural not to have a washer or two, a nut and maybe one cog leftover, after a job like that 🙂

Still dunno what these go to ?🤷 they were in the spares pile with the new bearings.

 

[mark_addy]

Thanks, work area needs some clearing out.
Yes English units. Transposing gear for metric is available as 37/47. Stud is 24. What I have is a 1948 model 820, 10”.
View attachment 36041
View attachment 36042

There’s a mix on stud of 48T & 24T. Need to look in book for the combinations.
View attachment 36043

That’s a beautiful cast gear you’re making ! Casting is something I’ve never done. I’m impressed. How are you cutting the teeth ?

Cutting teeth - I made an approximate hob following the link here (you can use the contents bar on the RHS to skip through the pages). This behaves like a stack of (in my case five) '135-to-rack' involute cutters at the right pressure angle, spaced at the right pitch. Unlike a spiral hob you don't have to gear the dividing head (or in my case a small rotary table cobbled into behaving like one) to the feed on the miller (that's the 'pro'); the 'con' is that the tooth form is a stepped approximation to the involute form, but for something like this it works fine. I suppose one could rough it out with my method here (or even a slitting saw) and then make a spiral hob (basically a worm gear with teeth relieved into it) and 'free hob' the tooth form, allowing the work to spin freely, driven by the hob; but I haven't tried that.

 

[mark_addy]

(Too late to edit - thanks for being complimentary 🙂 They're a bit crude really, but they work. You can see I hoped that the split pattern (whose toothed rim a friend produced on a 3D plastic printer) would come out of the sand - but it failed to the point I knew I would have to cut the teeth, so I plonked the 'in' and 'out' gates onto the outer rim regardless. I can cast in brass (it's a pain, as the Zn tries to boil off) but I don't know I'll be making mouthpieces or keywork any time soon. It's fun though to turn total scrap in odd shapes and sizes into something useful).

 

[PigSquealer]

(Too late to edit - thanks for being complimentary 🙂 They're a bit crude really, but they work. You can see I hoped that the split pattern (whose toothed rim a friend produced on a 3D plastic printer) would come out of the sand - but it failed to the point I knew I would have to cut the teeth, so I plonked the 'in' and 'out' gates onto the outer rim regardless. I can cast in brass (it's a pain, as the Zn tries to boil off) but I don't know I'll be making mouthpieces or keywork any time soon. It's fun though to turn total scrap in odd shapes and sizes into something useful).

(Too late to edit - thanks for being complimentary 🙂
Always a joy to learn from others experiences. Craftsmanship shared benefits everyone interested. Good or bad. Stuff happens. Even trying to repeat what worked for another craftsman…..your results may vary 🤪

It’s my understanding that a casting pattern part is not exact. Close but needs final machining to finish ? Not sure, but I would guess that different grades / grit of casting sand also play a role. Add to this the alloy used, the temperature heated to and ambient working temperature… yeah, all small stuff.

 

[PigSquealer]

@mark_addy i went down the rabbit hole of 3D printing replacement gears.

I can’t deny I learned a bucket load from the experience. I spent months dialing the tolerances. Still the best done only lasted months. Multiple materials used.
My consensus. The full system needs to be started from the shafts being OE .002 spec. Full set(s) done all at one time.

I tried one during over the weekend that I made a few years back. ☹️ See the scale factors adjustments. This produced an exact result.
Properly machined center. The train locked up. 🤬 These gears are available from OE….@ $280 each.
To make the unit correct. Several more need replacing….$1k for parts on a $200 78 year old machine 🤯🤯 ! Buy a new unit !

 

[mark_addy]

Goodness, that's a lot of perseverance! The ones I have made are on the banjo, and one can alter the mesh to suit - I think in a gearbox the tolerances would need to be a bit tighter; I could probably manage that with the alloy ones though they might end up a bit loose / noisy. The surface finish you can get with oil-bonded fine-grain sand (available here from hobby/art sellers - at a price - as 'Mansbond') is very good, so long as the melt goes well and the pouring temperature is something like right - I mean finger-prints can come out in it. You have to add a shrink allowance for it cooling, so casting to exact size doesn't really happen, not least because I never know what random (scrap) alloy I am melting. For me, it's fast (actually, no, it's slow), dirty, cheap and fun. To produce reliable components in bulk and make some money (through the internet I know someone who did that, in the model engineering world) requires refinement and technique I don't possess!

 

[PigSquealer]

Not much sax work to report on this week. COA on YAS -23. Some time eviewing a 1956 JK Tone King ll tenor. Also a King Super 20 tenor. Both needing full mechanical restoration. AKA undoing another technicians “overhaul” with burnt pads.
Spent most of my time dialing in my lathe. Finally got to cutting the spindle threads on this 10” 4 jaw chuck.

Now I can make the backing plates for my new (5 years ago) chuck’s.

 

[mark_addy]

Looks nice! I fabricated the backplates for my big chucks - but I cheated and waited a year or two until a cheap(-er) big tap with the spindle thread on it, came up on ebay. I only had to rough-cut the threads on the lathe, and then finish up with the tap.

(As an aside - and something you probably already thought of - a nice way to 'chase' fine-ish threads on a large diameter, if you have no tap and no chaser, is to use a smaller tap of the right tpi and set it up in the toolpost with one of the flutes at the right (in all senses) angle to the cut. I seem to get better results that way than by pursuing a single-point cut all the way to the final size, which I suppose is another way of saying I understand why chasers are a thing!)

 

[PigSquealer]

(As an aside - and something you probably already thought of - a nice way to 'chase' fine-ish threads on a large diameter, if you have no tap and no chaser, is to use a smaller tap of the right tpi and set it up in the toolpost with one of the flutes at the right (in all senses) angle to the cut. I seem to get better results that way than by pursuing a single-point cut all the way to the final size, which I suppose is another way of saying I understand why chasers are a thing!)

Yes I’m aware of this technique. Still worthwhile mentioning. Someone else may benefit from the technique if they didn’t already know.
I don’t have any 8 TPI taps . Besides the existing thread was ?? And not close to 1-1/2 8 TPI.
Most likely that chuck is for a wood lathe. Honestly it’s a pile of junk. I’ll probably use it as a faceplate only. I need a MT3 dead center or a MT3 to MT2 adapter.