Polishing cloth

[Bobby G]

As you may know, I've recently acquired a silver-plated Dolnet alto, complete with a polishing cloth. When I polish the sax it looks quite lovely, especially on the bell. However, I've noticed the blue polishing cloth is getting covered in mucky grey deposits - what are they? I can't believe I'm taking that much dirt off the sax. Also, do I need to periodically clean the cloth?

By the way, I'm working in Oxford tomorrow. Bearing in mind the story of the Dolnet, should I go into Allegro and show it off while I'm buying some experimental Superial tenor reeds?

Cheers, Bob

 

[tengu01]

The mucky grey stuff is the oxidised silver particles which are a normal part of the "i have a silver plated saxophone" miseries.

Nothing to worry about at all. I don't think there's so much dirt, it's just the silver oxidizing in the air. Nothing to worry about at all.

 

[BeeVee]

Hello Bob,

Some silver plated saxes are chemically treated to slow down the tarnishing process, (a hint I got from Hanson) so over-polishing is to be avoided, since you might be damaging that protection over time. Just a light polish - now and then should be OK.

BeeVee

 

[mfox]

i prefer the look of a tarnished silver sax to the shiny ones

 

[Rogerb]

I imagine that the Dolnet pre-dates such processes and, anyway it would all be gone by now!

I had heard a similar story from Hanson, but not directly from Alastair.

I like shiny saxes but not polishing, so it's lacquer or gold-plate for me!

I dare you to brave the BO & sarcasm with the Dolnet, Bob... I'm sure you can handle it 😀

 

[ken]

Hi Bobby,

Purely my thoughts... not to be taken as knowledgable:-

I guess the first thing is what 'kind' of polishing cloth you are talking about. Some of the specilised silver cloths are (shouldn't be IMHO) still slightly abrasive and will over a period of time eventually rub through silver plating (it is, AFAIK, quiet a soft plating). I hve always thought that anything (apart from normal dirt) that comes off on any cloth is part of the plating/silver.

On my own silver saxes I tried a few different speciality (Haggerty, Goddards) cloths and different cleaners and found they all removed some 'black' (silver). I then went onto plain old Pledge polish which I found worked well for a little while and I think it would probably be good long term on laquered saxes. However, on silver saxes, you can see after time that Pledge builds up a yellow'ish coating.

I've now moved onto using Carnuba wax which is clear (non yellowing) and as a complete natural product doesn't affect pads if you accidently get it on them.

Just my thoughts.

Saludos,
Ken.

 

[Bobby G]

Thanks everyone. The cloth is a soft blue thing, like a duster, but I imagine it's specifically for sax-cleaning as it came in a bag with a Bill Lewington sticker. I don't over-polish the sax, which is interestingly tarnished (almost brown here and there) where the cloth won;t go, but I do like the shiny engraved bit with the Dolnet logo, which contrasts icely with the slightly more matt appearance of the bell.

I went into Allegro today, Monsieur le Whiffy was absent, instead a very jolly bloke called Chris was in attendance, along with an older customer making a good noise on an old silver-plated straight soprano, very loud too!

I didn't take the Dolnet in, but I did buy a few Alexander reeds for the tenor. So far very impressed with 'em, too... 🙂

Cheers, Bob

 

[Rogerb]

If I recall my high-school chemistry the tarnish, which comes off as black on the cleaning cloth is silver sulphide, (ie a tiny bit of the silver combined with the sulphur pollutants in the air), which will never turn back into pure silver!
(Unless there's some cunning way of doing it by electrolysyis....not very practical!)

As long as you don't rub too hard, it's gonna take a helluvva while to polish off the silver-plate..... I have plated items which haven't 'gone' after 30 years of irregular polishing (and a few, cheaper ones which have!)

 

[ken]

Rogerb wrote:
..... I have plated items which haven't 'gone' after 30 years of irregular polishing (and a few, cheaper ones which have!)

Perhaps that's the rub (forgive the pun) then Roger... much is down to the quality of the plating... I don't believe saxes are very heavily plated, but I'm happy to be proved wrong.

I 'believe' that quality 'might' also depend on the entire process in as much as some plating is duo plated or tri plated sometimes with a copper/nickel??? under coat, but again I'm happy to be told I'm wrong as far a saxes are concerned, perhaps I am getting confused with the chrome on my old Ford Prefect!!!

 

[Bobby G]

You have an old Ford Prefect Ken! Excellent!

The silver plate on my sax is neither very thick, nor very silver; brass is showing through here and there, especially on the palm keys, but I like the look of it and it ain't bad for a 60-year-old horn.

Is the black stuff on my cloth going to be abrasive at all? Can I leave it looking mucky, or should I wash it?

Cheers, Bob

 

[ken]

<grin> No not any more Bob I was only joking. I did have and old Ford Prefect (obligatory moss green) eons ago. Nowdays I drive an old (1993) american Chrysler convertible called a LeBaron.

As you know, I'm no expert and open to be corrected, but all bar one 'old' sax I have ever seen (laquer or plate) has shown the signs of wear... and so they should, thinks I. Most of this 'wear' that I've noticed appears to 'me' to be either high use area's (as you say keys etc) or the parts that past owners have 'polished' a lot.

I don't know about your cloth, but the ones that came with my Hanson's were just plain old microfibre (non abrasive) and a quick wipe over with these did not cause any 'black' to come off.

However, all the proprietry silver cloths and polishes, even those that said they were non-abrasive caused the 'black on the cloth' problem. I was always under the impression that any residue coming off on a cloth was a sign that silver was being removed, so I went the pure polish route, first Pledge and now, as mentioned, Carnuba wax (can be bought as 'Mothers' car wax). It works very well "for me".

I gotta admit, I do tend to be a boring old polishing addict, mainly because the horns are relatively new, but I do agree with mfox that a 'players' (I'm not in that class 🙁 ) horn looks nice 'el naturale'.

Having looked at the pics in the past of your Dolly and how good it is, I think I would be inclinded to keep it clean by perhaps going over it once with a light silver polish and after that 'Carnuba' when it gets dirty.

ONLY M(Humble)O.

BTW: my ole' lady is mad keen on Native American jewellery (silver and torquise) and her jeweller suggested that she use a cloth that doesn't take off any black (even on solid silver) and gave her some small sheet of anti-oxidizing paper to put in her jewellery box. I 'think' something similar is available in larger sizes which is suitable for putting in sax cases.

Now talking of old Ford Prefects... whatever happened to the headlight dip switches that used to be on the floor (foot operated)... darn I miss those :S

Saludos,
Ken.

 

[ken]

Bob, BTW if it is of interest, being the nerd that I am, I get some of my sax polishing cloths (microfibre) here:- eBay listing .

Saludos,
Ken.

 

[Bobby G]

Thanks Ken, a microfibre cloth seems ideal, even though I'm not an obsessive polisher. The bit of the Dolnet seen in the photo is in fact the only really shiny part of the sax i.e. the panel with the logo. The rest is intentionally a bit less shiny, which I like. If it were all as shiny as the logo panel, it'd be like a chromium-plated sax and you'd need 8) to get near it because of the glare.

Cheers, Bob

p.s. we had a Ford Popular (oblig. black) and I think it was on this car that the screenwash was operated by pumping a small knob in the footwell.

 

[griff136]

Bob,
you can buy from windcraft - silver protection stips - these are basically paper strips with inert chemicals that suck the sulphides from the air in your case keeping the sax tarnish free

a few tips

1. make sure you remove as much moisture from the sax once finished - swab or mop.

2. keep the swab/mop separate from the case as these will have the moisture on them and thats what helps in the tarnishing process.

I always give my crook a good "shake" to remove any excess moisture - before stowing it away.

use the paper anti tarnish strips.

 

[Bobby G]

Now those strips sound ideal! Less polishing = more playing time 🙂

Cheers, Bob

 

[ken]

Bobby G wrote:p.s. we had a Ford Popular (oblig. black) and I think it was on this car that the screenwash was operated by pumping a small knob in the footwell.

Screenwashers were a new fangled invention for me Bob, perhaps I'd assumed it was a bilge pump... there was enough holes in floor to warrant one!!

Strangely, 30+ years on and I still occassionally go for the indicator stalk/switch that always used to be on the other side compared to new cars. Also, played hell with my motorbiking when the swapped sides for the brake and gear levers!!

I suppose there's some kind of sax relation there, cause it shows how old (bad, if it's the case) habits can stick!?

Hmm... wonder if I can get the old 'arm' type trafficators fitted to my sax so as to let me know when I've got the octave lever pressed... Spike could probably rig that one up.

Sorry my mind seems to have wandered off-topic, as usual. Better be back off to my cell soon.

Saludos,
Ken.

 

[Rogerb]

Bobby G wrote:
Now those strips sound ideal! Less polishing = more playing time 🙂

Cheers, Bob

I like to keep my sax on its stand most of the time, so thought, if I had a silver one(I don't!), I'd have a bin-liner, containing anti-tarnish strips and silica gel sachets to pop it into!
Obviously you need to keep it in as 'controlled' an 'environment' as possible, or it would be like putting on the aircon with all the windows open!!

 

[Pete Thomas]

last time I had my naked lady serviced (by the famous Stephen Howard), I got him to give her a good polishing while stripped down. Trouble is, six months later, she's now a dull grey again. Hey ho, my fault for keeping her out on the stand.

 

[Bobby G]

Pete Thomas wrote:
last time I had my naked lady serviced (by the famous Stephen Howard),

Is this an unintentional example of the double-entendre laden adult humour alluded to in the Caption Competition thread, or have I got a smutty mind?

I got him to give her a good polishing while stripped down.

The sax, or Steve Howard?

I'm obviously missing Humph on 'I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue'.

Mornington Crescent!

 

[ken]

Pete Thomas wrote:
last time I had my naked lady serviced (by the famous Stephen Howard), I got him to give her a good polishing while stripped down. Trouble is, six months later, she's now a dull grey again. Hey ho, my fault for keeping her out on the stand.

Well actually Pete there is a part answer in Rogers post.


Works well I think because Microfibre is supposed to catch/absorb moisture etc.

Downside is it's not as nice as having saxes on "display", but is better than packing em away every time.

Perhaps it's something for Stephen to patent and market.

Saludos,
Ken.