Intonation Playing: Tone, Intonation, Breathing?

[BigMartin]

I preferred the first one. The second sounded a little harsh to me and I guessed it was sharp. Not at all confident that's right, though.

 

[Hipparion]

I preferred the 2nd one, the first one sounded weird and uncomfortable to me, and I would say it was because of a tuning issue (as for which way, sharp or flat, I'm not so sure though... I'd say too flat)

 

[Colin the Bear]

Do I hear them both differently?
There's an area that harmony works. Perfect harmony is beautiful but slightly imperfect harmony has a personality and still works.
That's how I perceive equal temperament instruments and just temperament instruments combining. Best blend. Play nice or as nice as you can.
It's why guitarists use tuners imo. Equal temperament is out of tune.
I struggled for ages to understand why I could easily tune a guitar in open tuning but fourths were impossible.

 

[Dibbs]

I thought the first one sounded sharp but really the second one's flat isn't it? Assuming equal temperament that is.
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[Dibbs]

I thought the first one sounded sharp but really the second one's flat isn't it? Assuming equal temperament that is.
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Ha, I think I've found out why using Melodyne. There's a really flat G and C an octave below the alto in that distorted guitar(?) noise. It might be a difference tone or something coming from all the effects but it shows up in the Melodyne analysis in note assignment mode.

 

[6441]

Maybe I should repost those clips with a poll. I also find it confusing to know which is most in tune.

I'd like to see three or four similar pairs (or more) in such a test!

 

[Pete Effamy]

Ha, I think I've found out why using Melodyne. There's a really flat G and C an octave below the alto in that distorted guitar(?) noise. It might be a difference tone or something coming from all the effects but it shows up in the Melodyne analysis in note assignment mode.

That reminds me of sitting in an orchestra as a clarinet player and pulling my hair out, feeling really out of tune before realising that the bassoons were sharp. Or the flutes. Clarinet uses either no vibrato or in moderation. With the rest of the section using it as part of their sound it tends to mask their tuning.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Ha, I think I've found out why using Melodyne. There's a really flat G and C an octave below the alto in that distorted guitar(?) noise. It might be a difference tone or something coming from all the effects but it shows up in the Melodyne analysis in note assignment mode.

This is quite likely, and is a good explanation of why it can be best to use ears rather than looking a tuner.

maybe I can try doing a mix without the didorted guitar and put it up to compare.

I'd like to see three or four similar pairs (or more) in such a test!

I don't have similar pairs, but will try a poll using the mix of either with and without the guitar.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Ha, I think I've found out why using Melodyne. There's a really flat G and C an octave below the alto in that distorted guitar(?) noise

Do you mean the wah wah guitar?



I didn't originally hear it as out of tune but I do believe that melodyne doesnt lie 🙂What I hear is a bit odd because there is (I think) some loud amp hum that is getting wahwahed and I can imagine that would through melodyne anyway.

here is the rhythm track without drums (2 x Gtr, organ and bass)



If it isn't the wah wah are you able to make a recording the bit you mean isolated in melodyne so I can try to identify it.

 

[Dibbs]

It doesn't sound like anything sensible when I try to isolate just that note. It isn't there one the rhythm track without drums so I guess it's coming from the drums.

How do I upload an mp3?

 

[Pete Thomas]

It doesn't sound like anything sensible when I try to isolate just that note. It isn't there one the rhythm track without drums so I guess it's coming from the drums.

Well that's a bit of a turnup for the books. We now have to tune our saxophone to the drums!!! 🙂 Yippee.

Are you able to make a quick mp3 of that note over a couple of bars and upload it here?

 

[Neffmusic]

Well that's a bit of a turnup for the books. We now have to tune our saxophone to the drums!!! 🙂 Yippee.

Are you able to make a quick mp3 of that note over a couple of bars and upload it here?

Are the other tracks behind the saxophone exactly the same on both tracks with only the saxophone track being different. I thought I noticed the second track as sounding a little more mellow when I played the first few notes compared to the first track but I could have been imagining it........

 

[Pete Effamy]

Here's a little test. These sound clips alto solo starts with a held note. Which of these takes sounds most in tune?

(Not a trick question, yes, they are different

The intonation throws up no flashing red lights for me. The first - I think it starts a little sharp which dips as the volume backs off. Sharpness, unless really sharp is often used purposefully by players. Strings call it zing, and lead trumpet players call it top spin. A guitarist friend of mine always insisted that Brecker played sharp, but I don’t notice it if it’s true. If it is correct, I wonder if he meant it.

I do think the second example is a little flatter, but again it doesn’t bother me. Strangely, on both, the alto D intonation bothers me.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Are the other tracks behind the saxophone exactly the same on both tracks with only the saxophone track being different. I thought I noticed the second track as sounding a little more mellow when I played the first few notes compared to the first track but I could have been imagining it........

Yes they are indeed exactly the same. It is the exact same saxophone take, one as played and the other with auto pitch correct.

 

[Neffmusic]

Yes they are indeed exactly the same. It is the exact same saxophone take, one as played and the other with auto pitch correct.

So the first one is as played and the second is auto pitch correct? Auto pitch correct as in just the sax part is effected or the whole track and all the instruments are auto pitch corrected? Also, does auto pitch correct bring the sax into tune with A=440 or does it bring it into tune with the accompanying tracks? Thanks!

 

[Pete Thomas]

So the first one is as played and the second is auto pitch correct?

I don't think I'm answering that yet. Bit of a teaser, eh?

No the auto correction was just for the saxophone and is based on equal temperament A =440

 

[Neffmusic]

I don't think I'm answering that yet. Bit of a teaser, eh?

No the auto correction was just for the saxophone and is based on equal temperament A =440

I understand you not wanting to answer for the "tease" affect but without knowing the answer, we can't draw any conclusions from your recordings nor know the point of your posting them. I assume you were making a point in regard to the thread.......

 

[Pete Thomas]

I assume you were making a point in regard to the thread.......

It’s absolutely in regard to the thread and I apologise for the delay - there have been personal/home issues I have had to deal with plus I was interested in reading the opinions. Also got sidetracked by the suggestion of the guitar being out of tune so I may want to do a mix without that.

I intend to post a poll as someone suggested and

 

[6441]

and? LOL

 

[Pete Effamy]

Also got sidetracked by the suggestion of the guitar being out of tune so I may want to do a mix without that.

Why agonise over intonation Pete - you obviously didn’t hear anything wrong with the guitar or anything else until someone brought it up because you asked for scrutiny. I think we have two sets of ears - a good working pair that flag up tuning issues, and an extra “micro-scrutiny “ pair that we can engage if we wish. At this point almost everything starts to sound like it’s all over the place. A couple of cents then start to sound like 10C plus.