Saxophone beginners Overtones (harmonics)

[6441]

Not just to get there but to hold it without it jumping to the tonic or other overtone, but yes, it's the reflexes and control that are important.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Sheddin?

 

[6441]

woodshed. That's where we practice

 

[jbtsax]

The term "take it to the woodshed" or "wood shedding" goes back to the archaic and "barbaric" practice of taking a misbehaving child out the the shed where firewood was chopped and stored, and having the child select a stick of wood. The (usually) father then would paddle the child's backside until the child became "good" again.

"Woodshedding" a difficult scale or passage means you "beat on it" in the practice room until all the mistakes and errors are gone and it comes out "good" again. The subject in this case also gets to select which "stick of wood" to be used in the process. 🙂

 

[The Z]

The overtone itself isn’t Intresting, what you do in your throat and mouth to get there is - g

I disagree, there is profound truth in an well played overtone.

 

[6182]

One of the first things i was taught....

put the Sax down and sing any pitch.

MEMORISE THE EXACT POSITION OF YOUR TONGUE AND THE
POSITION OF YOUR LOWER JAW.

THEN PICK UP THE SAX AND PLAY THE SAME KEY FOR
THE PITCH USING THE MEMORISED POSITION OF YOUR
TONGUE AND JAW.

To be able to play various overtones involves putting the whole
topside of your tongue in different raised and lowered positions.

Its impractical to memorise where you put your tongue for each
overtone, but there is a simple solution. By putting the sax down
and saying different phrases like eeeeeeee or ooooooooo,
you are automatically putting your tongue in a different
position. Now pick the sax up and blow with tongue in exactly
the same place as you would say ooooooo or eeeeeee.

This is the easiest way to do overtones, so it helps to learn
different phrases for each overtone. In otherwords blow the
pitch exactly in the same way as you speak the phrase or word.

When you have mastered all 7 overtones, then you will be able
to play altisimo notes properly . ie 2 different altisimo notes using
the same key position, the 2nd altisimo note being an overtone
higher

 

[spike]

When I was at school many, many years ago I learned that the throat muscles are involuntary.
They operate involuntarily to enable us to digest our food, to breathe, drink beer and chew burgers simultaneously and to activate our vocal chords to speak and make noises like Ooogha Chukka etc. without choking.
Overtones on the saxophone are created and controlled in the oral cavity. Not in the Throat!!!
Pay particular attention as to what the tongue does, the shape it takes when playing overtones, sometimes the back of the tongue swells out, arches and presses against the upper teeth. Learning to be aware of what's happening in the oral cavity is the key to being able to successfully control the overtones and altissimo register.

 

[The Z]

There are no vowel sounds that map exactly to overtones, they only get you close. I would sound pretty strange using the saxophone tongue positions during talking.

Overtones on the Saxophone are created in the oral cavity and the throat (and in other areas). In fact not only the overtones, all tones are created with the use of the oral cavity and throat. Look at these pictures:
Saxophonist's Anatomy
Isn't science great?

 

[Keep Blowing]

When people learn to speak their own language, whether it be a French, German, Spanish, Chinese etc they don't study tongue positions or the science of the oral cavity, they just do it without much effort or much thought,. I can't imagine the guy in this video had any tuition,. He just picked it up without thinking

View: https://youtu.be/lrK-XVCwGnI

 

[6182]

how to play the 1st three overtones on Low Bb.



1st overtone

play a middle Bb

now sing the middle Bb pitch exactly like you heard it play,

KEEP YOUR TONGUE AND JAW IN THE SAME POSITION

THAT YOU SANG IT AND NOW FINGER A LOW Bb

AND BLOW OUT MIDDLE Bb (1st overtone) exactly like

how you sung the middle Bb.





2nd overtone

play a middle F

now sing the middle F pitch exactly like you heard it play,

KEEP YOUR TONGUE AND JAW IN THE SAME POSITION

THAT YOU SANG IT AND NOW FINGER A LOW Bb

AND BLOW OUT MIDDLE F (2nd overtone) exactly like

how you sung the middle F.



3rd overtone

play a high Bb

now sing the high Bb pitch exactly like you heard it play,

KEEP YOUR TONGUE AND JAW IN THE SAME POSITION

THAT YOU SANG IT AND NOW FINGER A LOW Bb

AND BLOW OUT HIGH Bb (3rd overtone) exactly like

how you sung the high Bb.





it’s as simple as that, You have to hear the pitch 1st in order to

sing the pitch, and then mimic how you sang the pitch

when you play on the lower keys.



ONCE you can do all three overtones on Low Bb,

then start on low B, in the same way.



There’s no mystery about playing overtones,

it’s not about waving your tongue around in your mouth

and hoping that you hit the overtone by accident.

 

[Caz]

I disagree, there is profound truth in an well played overtone.

To me it’s just a note with an awkward fingering 🙂

 

[6441]

If I blow on a Bb or B, just before making a sound, I can hear several overtones. I said elsewhere, blowing on a vacuum cleaner ("hoover" for the uk) tube gives you that same effect. At the moment, although I can hear the third, I haven't been able to play it yet. This forum post will serve as a reminder of how long it took me to get those notes out. I confirm that this is all in the effort to play altissimo notes, especially the high G. I can sometimes get the G# and the A is relatively easy if there's no one around to hear it. They're the only notes I've tried so far.

 

[Halfers]

For me, the, "sing the note then keep that mouth position and blow the horn" just doesn't work. The jaw tongue and lip position isn't that important in maintaining a sung note. I can hit a note and move my mouth and tongue and lips around and maintain the pitch. So which position to keep for blowing the horn? For me, it's more complicated than that.

 

[6441]

No one can sing the upper partials, anyway. For me, beginner or not, I sense the lip pressure and positioning is as important as the cavity. Once one of the overtones is stable, you can mess with the shape of the throat and the placement of the tongue and it shows the effects. Ironically, I am now hitting the fifth (two octaves up), but still not getting the fourth partial. I do hear it in there, though.

 

[Halfers]

No one can sing the upper partials, anyway. For me, beginner or not, I sense the lip pressure and positioning is as important as the cavity. Once one of the overtones is stable, you can mess with the shape of the throat and the placement of the tongue and it shows the effects. Ironically, I am now hitting the fifth (two octaves up), but still not getting the fourth partial. I do hear it in there, though.

I don't know, if I cross my legs really hard, I can squeak out a few 😛

And yes, I'm with you on the lip pressure and position. Although inevitably changing the lip position and pressure will have some effect on the shape of the oral cavity. I haven't strayed from working on Bb Harmonics and I'm still struggling to get Bb3 out consistently. It's coming though.

 

[6441]

Progress report: I just managed to play the three altissimo notes G, G#, A several times in a row! (It's easier to hit the G coming from G#). I'm still fighting to get a fourth partial on the low keys, though.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Once you've mastered this...overtones on saxophone is easy

View: https://youtu.be/vC9Qh709gas

 

[Halfers]

Once you've mastered this...overtones on saxophone is easy

View: https://youtu.be/vC9Qh709gas

The pack of dogs convening in my back garden wish to know what the hell is going on!

 

[Keep Blowing]

Once you've mastered this...overtones on saxophone is easy

View: https://youtu.be/vC9Qh709gas

I'm won't be buying any of her records but that is amazing.

 

[spike]

Overtones on the Saxophone are created in the oral cavity and the throat (and in other areas). In fact not only the overtones, all tones are created with the use of the oral cavity and throat. Look at these pictures:

In my post I indicated that the throat muscles are in fact involuntary. It's not possible to consciously control them.
In your link you'll see that the Glottis and the Pharyngeal wall are located above the throat, from then on we find ourselves in the oral cavity where the tongue comes into play.
I have an old VHS video by Steve Douglas where he demonstrates how to growl using the epiglottis, not to be recommended - it can be painful.
The throat obviously plays a role as a tube system in conjunction with the lungs and the diaphragm.
Bottom line: You want to master overtones ? - Get a PPT 😉