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Beginner Overtones (harmonics)

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6441

 
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I'm looking for tips on controlling overtones. I understand it's an issue of mouth feel and embouchure + breath. I watched a bunch of videos and and read a bunch of pages, but I can't produce the third octave. To be clear:

I can play a low Bb, B, C, C# and jump between the tonic, the first octave (1st harmonic?) and the first fifth notes. I'm close to being able to play these well.

How do I get that next step, the second octave harmonic.

I call it the third tone: the first is the natural tonic note, B (D on the alto). The next, first harmonic is an octave above. The, second harmonic is a fifth above that second B. Now then next third harmonic should be a B two octaves above. I can hear it in the mix when I start a note, but I can't produce it yet. I've tried every gymnastic combo I can think of and it doesn't come. I saw a video called "the switch" that's supposed to help, and occasionally it does. The switch is moving between that second octave played with the octave key as you'd normally produce it, then switching to the low fingering and getting that fifth (3rd harmonic). One in ten times, when it works I try to hold it as long as possible.

What else can I do? What's to become of me if I can't play like this:

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View: https://youtu.be/mD6pfo7Hi-I?t=165


(Kidding! that'll take a least another month.)

Seriously, what helped you make the jump to more than two harmonics? Any suggestions?
 
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I have the same problem. To be fair I only practice overtones occasionally, and maybe regular practice is key here. I can get the Bb two octaves above the low Bb quite easily, but for B and C it seems impossible. When playing the two octave Bb I can switch to the B, but find it impossible to restart the note from the B fingering. Trying to switch to a C does not work however. So I am also grateful for any suggestions on how to reach these overtones.
 
Different people have different ways of approaching this issue.. I find that shaping my mouth as if I'm trying to sing the note helps, as does the shape and position of my tongue - difficult to explain since it was a process of trial and error for me and I was really looking for the transition point between the harmonics where multiphonics dwell...

you may (or may not) find 'Shooshie's Mouthpiece Exercises' helpful - Saxophone Frequently Asked Questions
 
The fourth partial is hard. Try singing it - try and have a clear concept of how it sounds - try playing it without forcing to much air into your mp. It took me a long time to get the high Bb over low Bb.. like 5-6 months! and i still can’t produce it with 100% certainty.
 
Beginning brass players are generally taught to use the shape of the tongue to produce different overtones with the same fingering. An example would be AH--OO--EE--OO--AH to play low C, middle G, and third space C on a trumpet. As the back of the tongue rises it changes the size and shape of the oral cavity as well as increase the speed of the airstream (the airplane wing effect). The same principle works for harmonics on the saxophone. To go higher the "EE's" become more extreme and the air goes faster---think making a hissing sound like a cat. @Targa may be able to give some pointers on that. :p
 
I can get the overtone 2 octaves above consistently on Bb and B, only occasionally on C and on rare occasions if I slur up to C#.

I practice OTs every practice as part of my warm up. I find it helpful to play the note with standard fingering to get it in my head and then try to sing it with the low fingering. Take a big breath. This is tricky, but if you can learn to raise the soft palette (I did, so it’s possible) and raise the back of your tongue. It takes time to get the feel of it. Do it regularly, but don’t spend too much time on it each day as it can be quite taxing.
 
It's already kind of a fun challenge to pass between the tonic and the first two, and yes I do it with a "hooo" or "vooo" or "fooo" sound.
I can hear the second octave in there, but the always settles on the fifth or the first octave. I hear the other wanting to come out.
The reason I am working on this is in the hopes of being able to play a few of the altissimo notes, in particular G and G#. The A is easier to hit, and the G# is closer to coming out. (I'm on alto.) That G is killing me. I was able to hit it on some mouthpiece+reeds combos and not others.
 
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6441 said:
It's already kind of a fun challenge to pass between the tonic and the first two, and yes I do it with a "hooo" or "vooo" or "fooo" sound.
I can hear the second octave in the re but the always settles on the fifth or the first octave. I hear the other wanting to come out.
The reason I am working on this is in the hopes of being able to play a few of the altissimo notes, in particular G and G#. The A is easier to hit, and the G# is closer to coming out. (I'm on alto.) That G is killing me. I was able to hit it on some mouthpiece+reeds combos and not others.
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A tip passed on by Eugene Rousseau is to have the front F adjusted so that the key opens just 1.5 millimeters. This facilitates the troublesome high G when played using the front F key. Once the player learns the voicing of that note and can play it consistently, then the "training wheels" are removed and the F key is returned to its full opening.
 
Which key is the front 'F' key? the one that plays an F after high E up near the neck, the second highest normal note on a sax with an F# key?
 
jbtsax said:
Beginning brass players are generally taught to use the shape of the tongue to produce different overtones with the same fingering. An example would be AH--OO--EE--OO--AH to play low C, middle G, and third space C on a trumpet. As the back of the tongue rises it changes the size and shape of the oral cavity as well as increase the speed of the airstream (the airplane wing effect). The same principle works for harmonics on the saxophone. To go higher the "EE's" become more extreme and the air goes faster---think making a hissing sound like a cat. @Targa may be able to give some pointers on that. :p
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Not really, the only 'clever' thing I can do along those lines is play all the higher notes without using the octave key and for most of them make a noise that sounds like the upper and lower note playing simultaneously.
 
Targa said:
a noise that sounds like the upper and lower note playing simultaneously
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That's exactly what's happening. It allows the lower partials into the note. Opening the octave vent prevents the lower partials from sounding.
 
Doing things just for the sake of doing them wastes a lot of time when you could be playing. ;)
 
Colin the Bear said:
Doing things just for the sake of doing them wastes a lot of time when you could be playing.
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Unless of course you use them in your playing to enhance your sound and extend your voicing capability.
For me it's another weapon in my arsenal (Oooops :doh: leaving myself open to a wind-up with that word) should read ammunition or gunbelt perhaps.
 
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Targa said:
Not really, the only 'clever' thing I can do along those lines is play all the higher notes without using the octave key and for most of them make a noise that sounds like the upper and lower note playing simultaneously.
Click to expand...
And here I thought all along that you were "multiphonically challenged". I owe you an apology good sir.
 
You Rang Sir?

These are the 9 phrases that i use to play
9 overtones on my alto

1st – vaw

2nd – voo

3rd – ver

4th – year or noo

5th – foo

6th – fii

7th – fee

8th – hii

9th – hee

from what i recall, i skipped some overtones that i couldn’t play,
and found i could play the odd overtone higher up, i concentrated
on the higher one and eventually worked my way down to
troublesome lower overtone.

They don’t often come out in ascending order of mastering them.
 
Play Bb bis key without the octave key, but sound the octave above., Whilst holding the note, finger bottom Bb and hold the Bb you started with. I hope that's comprehensible and it works for you
 
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