Tech/maintenance Neck corks

[prelude1]

Wow….im still a lowly beginner but i got skills in the shop….so i replaced the neck corks on both my saxes. Cheaper Selmer Prelude and my vintage Buescher…..my squeakage has darn near disappeared if im blowing correctly….my mouthpieces werent really loose or anything but they were very easy to put on, really didn't need grease….now i need grease but its not difficult just very firm….it is an EZPZ fixe for beginners with even a modicum of skill….maybe a half hour at most for each horn. It appears this can alleviate some squeakage issues that isn’t necessarily embouschere related. Sooo am i showing my sax iq is very low or did i accidentally stumble on to a good thing.
Cheers

 

[skeller047]

If you don’t need cork grease at least every second or third time you put the horn together, your cork is too loose. So that is now part of your saxophone bag-o-knowledge 🙂 A good way to check if your cork is loose is to wrap a layer of plumber’s teflon tape around the cork. If that changes the way the horn blows, get a new cork on there ASAP! (Leave the tape on until you do…)

Good on you for successfully putting on a new cork - 2 corks! Easy to do for someone that understands glue and knives and sandpaper, but maybe a stretch for someone with no “tool aptitude”. Most techs will do this work for a minimal charge.

Squeaks can easily be caused by small leaks (as you found out). Make sure your horn is sealing well. And good that you found out the cause wasn’t you.

 

[thomsax]

The cork on the neck needs more water instead of lots of cork grease.

The warter expand the cork. The cork grease makes if easier for us to put the mpc on the neck and to adjust the mouthpiece.

I use to place my neck in a glas of water ( I use the "condensated water" from the tumble dryer instead of water from the tap) for some hours, over the night ..... just so much water to cover the cork.

I like tapered tube corks insted of sheet cork.

 

[Targa]

You can swell the cork by holding it in the steam from the kettle with appropriate care for your fingers.

 

[thomsax]

I used steam and open flames the expand the neck cork. Both methods were drying out the cork and made it fragile. f Next time you have a new neck cork on your sax start to apply a small quantity of cork grease in the bore instead of on the neck cork. IMO we use too much cork grease on the neck corks.

 

[PiccoloPirate]

I use sheet cork for sax necks, clarinets, and the Grenadilla Picc.
Having two clarinets now, used up my cork grease, and I am trying out, Lanolin.
The type used by Moms and babies.
Always take the Grenadilla clarinet apart after playing, clean, let dry and in its case.
The B12, gets cleaned then left assembled, ready to play.
Mouthpieces are always cleaned, as are the reeds and assembled when ready to play.
Lanolin comes in different viscosities.
I just repadded the B12 with homemade cork pads, to see how it played, and laminated some better cork, which I'll put in soon.
Went with old school shellac and my hot air soldering tool.

 

[PigSquealer]

Be careful submerging the cork for a long period of time in water. Especially if it is a vintage lacquered neck. Long-term in water can remove the lacquer. Steam too.

I mask off the area on edge of glue zone. Apply the glue and then quickly peel it off. You get a nice crisp edge.
When it comes time for sanding I protect the area again with tape. No reason to have scratches. It’s cheap insurance.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Just goes to show that all saxophone parts need to be in serviceable condition.🤔

 

[thomsax]

The sax neck is tapered but the mouthpiece bore is straight. To have you mouthpice to fit proberly on the neck cork the outside of the cork must be straight. A sheet of thick cork or a straight tapered tube cork? Most techs prefer sheet of cork. When you sand down the neck cork its' important that it's even and and has the same O.D. from the tip of the cork to the end of the cork.

 

[AlonW]

Cork too thick use sandpaper

Cork too thin use a lighter to apply some heat to expand the cork. Be careful not to burn it too much.

 

[ghostler]

In cases where the neck is a touch too short for even a new neck cork fix for a modern mouthpiece, does a tech then resort to carefully sweat or silver soldering a short brass extension to the neck end?

Being a DIY'er, that'd be something I might consider on one of my resurrected saxes. Similar to the movie Young Frankenstein, then you could call my sax, Old Zipper Neck? 😉

 

[turf3]

In cases where the neck is a touch too short for even a new neck cork fix for a modern mouthpiece, does a tech then resort to carefully sweat or silver soldering a short brass extension to the neck end?

Being a DIY'er, that'd be something I might consider on one of my resurrected saxes. Similar to the movie Young Frankenstein, then you could call my sax, Old Zipper Neck? 😉

You can do that but it's counterproductive. The reason you're having to pull too far out for mechanical stability isn't that the "neck is too short", it's that the chamber of your mouthpiece is too small. By pulling out so far you're throwing the scale all out of whack. If you insist on playing that mouthpiece, and only that mouthpiece, extending the neck just further reduces the volume of air inside the mouthpiece when in playing position, which will make it play sharper and make you pull it out even further, making the scale even more inaccurate.

The real fix is to select a mouthpiece that will play in tune on your horn without having to be pulled out so far. The shorter sounding length (distance to tip of mouthpiece) will improve the internal tuning of the horn. Incorrect sounding length due to too-small chamber volume can also lead to weird tuning anomalies (like the wicked sharp E and F of Conn baritones played with small chamber pieces), difficulty emitting altissimo, squeaking, etc.

The kind-of fix is to extend the MOUTHPIECE shank. At least you're doing no harm.

Consider also that almost any high quality saxophone has a reinforcing ring at the end of the neck, so you'll have to mutilate the neck buy cutting that off to extend the neck. Just say no.

 

[ghostler]

Consider also that almost any high quality saxophone has a reinforcing ring at the end of the neck, so you'll have to mutilate the neck buy cutting that off to extend the neck. Just say no.

Thanks for your detailed explanation. I was speaking a bit premature, because to be honest with you, I have yet to encounter this situation.

In cases where my mouthpiece was loose was due to a previous owner using a mouthpiece with a narrower opening, or, tuning quite sharp. Cork was sanded or shaved, compressed by mouthpiece shank to better fit the narrower mouthpiece.

A new cork solved the problem. I have no intention of buying an "oddball sax" that requires a unique hard-to-obtain mouthpiece.

 

[turf3]

...I have no intention of buying an "oddball sax" that requires a unique hard-to-obtain mouthpiece.

Well, I'd hardly call a Conn baritone an oddball sax, nor a Meyer or Link mouthpiece a "unique hard to obtain mouthpiece", but I can guarantee you that if you take that Conn baritone and try to use a 0 or 1 chamber Berg, or a Vandoren with a small round chamber, it'll be hanging off the end, because it's the wrong mouthpiece for the horn. When I went from the aforementioned Vandoren to a Meyer, the sounding length decreased by nearly a full inch. Think about that. For high F, wiht a tube length of something like 20", that's a 5% change in length. NO WONDER the scale was all wonky before. NO WONDER it plays beautifully in tune now.

There are dozens of makes and models of mouthpieces with larger chambers, with small rollover baffles, large rollover baffles, step baffles of all kinds, all with nice large chambers that'll tune well on any instrument. The world has changed since the days when all there was, was Link, Meyer, Berg Larsen and Dukoff.

 

[ghostler]

Well, I'd hardly call a Conn baritone an oddball sax

Actually, perhaps I should have clarified myself.

I was thinking of the C melody tenor saxophones and some metal clarinets. Comments thus far in this forum indicate that more or less their mouthpiece requirements were unique.

Thus, I have decided to not even entertain them for my instrument collection.

 

[turf3]

I can't speak to metal clarinets, but what you need for a C melody saxophone is a C melody mouthpiece. There are a couple of makers who are making new ones, with a more modern tonal characteristic than the originals from the 1920s (very few of us play 1920s design MPs on baritone tenor alto or soprano, either).

Trying to use alto or tenor mouthpieces on a C melody is purely a game of trial and error, in which most trials will fail. This shouldn't really be surprising.

 

[Colin the Bear]

A metal clarinet is a clarinet. No need for a special mouthpiece.

 

[ghostler]

A metal clarinet is a clarinet. No need for a special mouthpiece.

I read your thread on

Clarinet - Jason’s Professional metal clarinet

Got a chance of a metal clarinet. Wanted one for ages. I can't find any trace of the make. It's a Jason's professional. Made in USA. Full bohem system. Serial K630. One piece with separate barrel. I've got it in bits at the moment for a clean, oil and repad. I'll try and get some pics up. I...

cafesaxophone.com

There was interesting discussion on metal clarinets, it may have been The Woodwind Forum.

It also discussed mouthpiece requirements on some, and etc. Your mention of the Jason professional metal clarinet is the first time I have heard of this brand.

Given that most were produced up to WW2 or so I gather, the earlier ones were suspect, quality varied, some weren't that great intonation wise, most for sale require full restoration and that I already own 4 Bb soprano clarinets and 1 Eb sopranino in both grenadilla and ebonite and concentrate on saxes, just didn't see a need to add one to my stable.

 

[PiccoloPirate]

Sand paper has grit applied to paper, and grit applied to cloth, might be better for cork work.
Music Medic has something called
Open Mesh in 150/320 grit.

 

[Ivan]

... I am trying out, Lanolin.

I see, out of the window, a group of lanolin producers

Perhaps I could grab a sax neck, dash up the field and see if any of the girls stay still long enough for me to rub the cork on their fleece