Tone Mouthpiece Tip Opening and Pursuit of a Bigger Sound

[jbtsax]

The acoustical reason that a mouthpiece with a wider tip opening will play at a louder volume is that the reed has farther to travel up and down before one blows hard enough to close the reed off. This, of course, requires more air and more energy input from the player. Using a stiffer reed on an open tip mouthpiece forces the player to play with a tighter embouchure thereby pressing the reed closer to the facing curve and reducing the tip opening. In other words, it is counterproductive.

In my experience loudness is relative. It depends upon the type and size of band one is playing in, the size and acoustics of the area the group plays in, and of course the style of the music. I often think of the saxophone player who searches for the brightest sounding sax and then has oversize resos installed and gets the loudest possible mouthpiece only play into a microphone connected to an enormous sound system for every performance. Really? I can see trying to get the desired "edge" to the sound to match one's concept, but needing a loud set up when everything you play is amplified anyway.

 

[Phil]

Im going to talk about medium and large chamber pieces...im excluding small chambers and high baffle pieces.

The other issue with big and huge tips is the issue off focus. A player who is not adept at focusing his or her tone tends to sound better on smaller to moderate tips. A big tip can sound a bit blatty. The bigger the chamber the more likely this can happen. In alto Meyers sound best to me in a six. Much bigger and they just are not as sweet with many players. In Tenor links...especially hard rubber ones tend to spread out too far once they are not in the small to moderate range. A skilled player compensates but we are all at different levels.

 

[Wonko]

I'll go searching for a new tenor mouthpiece tomorrow, spend a couple of hours at my local sax-shop to find the right one.

Update on this:
I spent about 1.5 hours in the shop testing about 10 different mouthpieces.
And I bought a hard rubber Otto Link nr.7. From the pieces that played comfortably that was the one where the sound was most to my liking.
I'm very pleased with my purchase.

 

[IGoddard]

I’ve ordered a handful of 7 mouthpieces into my local shop. 7 is where I’ve settled on alto so figured it’s a good place to start.
Playing the 9 for more than 10 mins I was pinned down by the barbell in embouchure terms

 

[Deleted member 6802]

I sounded good on a **** expression 8/9 ish mouthpiece for years. As long as it is not too soft of a setup, you can make it sound nice. I would try to get a nice sound and then search for equipment where you can have it with as little effort as possible. Your brand sounds strange tho, I never heard from it. In my experience, established brands make the best equipment...

 

[Phil]

What brad sounds strange?

 

[6441]

What is the opening of a Selmer Prologue? I see 'C' where there are specs, but does that relate to a number you're referring to in this post?
How many ways are there to describe a mouthpiece in one digit or letter?

 

[Phil]

There are many ways to describe a tip opening. Different companies use different numbers. Some use metric, some use decimals in inches. then there is selmer that uses letters, and Links, Meyers, and other pieces that use numbers like 7 and 7*...the star for half a step. Typically .005
Generally people think .100 for a 7 BUT some companies have a different measure for a 7.

So...you need a mouthpiece facing chart. Jody has a good one but it does not have every piece.

JodyJazz Mouthpiece Facing Charts | JodyJazz

that should help but its not all inclusive. I use Link sizes for tenor and Meyer for alto. Theo does the same...so do a lot of makers but not everyone.

Keep in mind some companies are notorious for not even being close to what they are marked. A berg can be way off. Babbitt pieces are a little off but close enough for government work. Old Brilhart pieces are anyones guess...they can be all over the map. It can be frustrating when trying to find a piece with an equal tip of what you play.

 

[6441]

What's funny is that with both mpc and reeds, nothing as truly precise or scientific, although a millimeter measurement should be.
It's in inches, to add a little spice to the mix!

 

[Phil]

A piece should be what it measures. Many are. As for Bergs...the lack of precision in tip openings are the least of their technical problems.

A lot is in inches becuase the famous Eric Brand refacing book is very old and in inches. Also a lot of the famous mouthpieces are Links and Meyers. There is no standard among companies, in part, because there was no internet and over history these developed in different countries and areas.

Most boutique makers use the Link/Meyer system. Morgan pieces are smaller than the Link system.

Vandoren and Brancher are among the few that use metric. I have to convert everytime someone tells me what size they play in those. At least Brancher puts a table on their website.

Im not suggesting people should not use metric...Just about every country does...Its just that tip sizing on most brands of mouthpieces are do not follow suit.

 

[6441]

"For hysterical reasons..." is a saying translated from the French. Yes, understood. A quick search finds a converter like this.

 

[brammelo]

Just like shoes, you need a fit. Big shoes don't make for a faster runner or clowns would win all the races.

I'm not sure how my mind works, but that statement triggered this song:

... it's too small boy, ooh-yoo, il est trop petit!

Yes I know, I'm about to get my forum license revoked. Back to being a good boy.

 

[CliveMA]

I don't mean to revive an old thread but I thought I should clarify the D'Addario Select Jazz D9M tipsize for thread accuracy. It is equivalent to an Otto Link 8*. I suspect the "9" biased some people's comments above more than they might have otherwise if the tipsize had been clarified early in the thread.

See mouthpiece chart reference linked below for D'Addario tipsizes.

D6M = .100 = Otto Link 7
D7M = .105 = 7*
D8M = .110 = 8
D9M = .115 = 8*

I recently got given a Jazz Select 9M mouthpiece

There are many ways to describe a tip opening.

So...you need a mouthpiece facing chart. Jody has a good one but it does not have every piece.

JodyJazz Mouthpiece Facing Charts | JodyJazz

that should help but its not all inclusive. I use Link sizes for tenor and Meyer for alto.

 

[Dr G]

I recently got given a Jazz Select 9M mouthpiece as my first upgrade from my 5J Cannonball that came with my Vintage Reborn. I was slightly intimidated by the step up to a 9 from a lowly 5 but it’s surprisingly playable on the 3 strength reeds I’ve been using on the 5. A few weeks of long tones and I’ll be absolutely fine.

I was chatting to the guy who gave me the Select Jazz, he recently purchased a vintage Otto link 12*. The guy he purchased it from said he’d probably want to use a 1.5 strength reed to compensate for the tip opening size. Not knowing he was a pro player and just slapped on his 5 strength reed and cracked on.

This got me thinking...

Imagine if the person was instead playing a vintage Otto Link 6*.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Tried a 6*. Too wide for me. 6 was ok. I guess I'm a small tip, hard reed kind of player.

 

[CliveMA]

Tried a 6*. Too wide for me. 6 was ok. I guess I'm a small tip, hard reed kind of player.

What about on Soprano? Aren't you a wide-tip guy?

 

[Colin the Bear]

S80 G. It's tiny. Rico 11 on clarinet. Also tiny. Selmer D on alto after trying a few bigger. S80C* on baritone. An old lelandais on tenor. Somewhere around a C**. I don't know either.

 

[CliveMA]

S80 G. It's tiny. Rico 11 on clarinet. Also tiny. Selmer D on alto after trying a few bigger. S80C* on baritone. An old lelandais on tenor. Somewhere around a C**. I don't know either.

S80 G is ~0.060" tip opening = Otto Link 6 or 6* on Jody Jazz Chart referenced above. Maybe not tiny for Soprano but, yeh, not at all wide.