Mouthpieces Mouthpiece and Alto questions

[TonyMoroney]

Hi All,

The title of this post was going to be

"Alto, Like a New Pair of Underpants" - (Quite tight and restrictive)

But then I thought of OG, Smiffy, etc. and the ensuing chaos thereafter :laugh:

My dilemma is that I've been playing the Walstein Tenor for a while now, and it's wonderfully free blowing I'm running a metal otto link 5* and it's great.

My teacher has recommended that when noodling and generally stretching my metaphorical legs, that I do so on the Alto, as it will likely do more to build my embouchure and control than the Tenor.

When I play the Alto (Trever James Rev II) with my Otto Link 5* Rubber (ebonite) it feels very restrictive, like I'm blowing through something very restrictive. I really enjoy playing the Alto, but want to understand if the restrictiveness is a trait of my 5* MPC or the Alto (are some horns more "free-blowing"?).

Also, I love the Otto Link MPC on my Tenor so much I wanted to get one for the Alto, but I've been playing the 5* for a while now, I bought a second hand Otto 8 (ebonite) but I'm not quite there yet. Would it be a waste of money simply going to a 6*??

I'm in London most of next week and plan to pop into Sax Co Uk and buy what I need, so any help and recs would be greatly recommended.

Sorry for all the Q's

Cheers

T.

 

[old_git]

Tony,
Thanks for the mention.
Smiffy, Young Col and I, gladly accept your kind invitation to lunch at The Ivy, just tell us when and that you really are paying.

Altos are for wimps.

 

[TonyMoroney]

If ya tell me where "The Ivy" is I'll gladly buy you guys lunch, although I prefer a decent curry and a beer in the evening myself, if you could ever consider "slumming it?" :whistle:

T.

 

[TomMapfumo]

Hi Tony!

Good question. It is worth eliminating the mouthpiece/ligature/reed aspect of your dilemma at somewhere like sax.co.uk or even at Howarth's - also in London, and with a huge selection of mouthpieces etc.

Sounds like a larger tip opening may be worth trying. Also trying some lighter reeds to help clarify the situation. Otto Link often seem to attract the word "stuffy", so trying a few others would be a good idea.
If the 5* has a 70 tip opening it would be worth trying 75/80 sizes or even up to 85.

My suggestions would include Vandoren V16, Ponzol Vintage HR, Selmer Soloist & Jody Jazz HR* amongst others.

What reeds do you currently use - my favorites are Francois Louis, DC's, RJS's and Marca Jazz - all depends on the sound you like, but some reeds can also be stuffy sounding IMO.

Otherwise just aware that Trevor James does not have the highest of reputations on the forum, but not heard that it was stuffy sounding particularly, and never even seen one.

Hope that this is helpful.
Kind regards
Tom 8)

 

[TonyMoroney]

Tom: Reeds I currently use RJS 2M which seem to work really well for me.

But it's not the sound I find stuff and restricted, it's the "free-blowingness" of the instrument. When playing the Alto it's like trying to blow through a straw instead of something the size of the crook. I wasn't sure if this was just a characteristic of the "alto" being a smaller instrument or if the metal MPC made a diff.

I use RJS 2M on the Tenor too, so I have direct comparision for the reeds.

T.

 

[phil_edwards]

Interesting comments Tony.

I tried a T James Signature Alto (s'hand) a little while ago and found it to be very similar in 'stuffiness' to my Martin Alto, and that is quite stuffy. So it could be the instrument.

A mouthpiece session won't do any harm, but if you get the chance try out a couple of other Alto's with your current set-up while you're there.

Phil

 

[TomMapfumo]

Sounds really helpful, Phil.

Kind regards
Tom 8)

 

[Ben Cain]

Hi,
I have a TJ sig alto with Otto LInk *5 rubber and also find this not free blowing at all. I changed mpc to Ponzol M2 and find this improved the situation. I know most people don't use metal on alto but I Like the sound and the smaller size of the mpc for my mouth.
I have just got a Runyon quantum for alto and really like the way it blows. I am using Otto Link *6 NY on tenor and this is very free blowing with the JK tenor. I will be changing altos soon so then we will see what happes.

 

[griff136]

Interesting comments
before setting off on a mouthpiece quest you may want to get a repairer to stick a leak light down the sax and do a check with a feeler on all the pads to elimnate the sax from your quest - no point forking out hundreds for the latest jazzbebop turbo nutter mouthpiece with spoiler baffles and tone ring if your sax is leaking!

if you can make it into Croydon ( I work there at John Myall Music on thursdays until about 2 o clock) I'll give your sax a leak light check for free

 

[young_col]

You see, Tony, if you mention chaos, OG and Smiffy in the same breath, poor alto wimps like me get dragged in through no fault of our own.

Having said that, if you can get to John Myall's it would be well worth taking up Griff's offer - and the Croydon codgers could no doubt meet you somewhere for a bite.

Until I tried out some better grade alto models recently I did not realise that compared to the Yani and Mauriats, my TJ was not as free blowing; I thought that's how they all were. I was using the same set up of Selmer Soloist C*, Rovner lig and RJS2M . My TJ is about 10 years old and hadn't been used much (but had been looked at by Griff recently). Perhaps it is the way TJs play generally, or it might have been just comparing mine to much better models. The difference was quite startling though.
YC

 

[Bobby G]

Tony, without wishing to take any business away from Griff, it's going to be less of a trek for you to Myatt's in Hitchin where Graham will probably be able to do you a quick leak test

 

[Rogerb]

I learned about 'free blowing' differences when, as a fairly raw beginner I was allowed to play (with) some very expensive hardware at Allegro Music in Oxford.
I had never found my Hanson SA-5 hard to blow, even from Day 1, but I tried 3-4 very pretty Borganis (with my Lamberson mpc) and could hardly get a sound out of any of them.
The easiest to blow were a Yani A901 and a Selmer Ref 54.

I was not tempted, but it was an enlightening experience 🙂

 

[sax_starved]

I've also got a TJ Revolution II alto and I noticed a huge difference when I switched from the standard TJ mouthpiece and Rico reed to Graftonite mpc and RJS. It became much harder to blow but I like it because it produces a really bright, light sound and I like to play the alto for lively tunes.

In any case, what's the forum got again poor old Trevor?

Lloyd

 

[TonyMoroney]

griff136 wrote:
if you can make it into Croydon ( I work there at John Myall Music on thursdays until about 2 o clock) I'll give your sax a leak light check for free

I really appreciate the offer Griff, but getting to Croydon at anytime is a bit of a pain, especially on a week day (unless I happen to have work down that way)

But you can be sure if I do manage to get down that way I'll buy lunch, although I'm considering doing a side-by-side on the horns. I like the Walstein Tenor so much I might make a special trip to blow the TJ against the Walstein and see what I think and if there's little or no diff, then work with the MPC in the same session. The hard part is that all the retailers are a fair trot out of my way (I live in East Mids. and work in Central London a lot), so to do so requires a full days commitment from me.

Lots of really useful comments from everyone though. Thank you all!!

Tom: With regards to the Howarths recommendation; I had a bad experience on the one and only time I visited them, which makes me reluctant to ever go back.

A guy who was trying an instrument (and playing at a level I'd aspire to reach) finished and left the store with an instrument, and the staff basically fell over themselves laughing at and about the guy, whilst making less than polite comments about him in general. They didn't attempt to mask their mirth or have the tact to wait until there were no other customers in there. Now all I can think of is how much entertainment I'd provide for them if I went in trying mpc's and horns playing at the level I do. Maybe it was an isolated incident, but I suspect most beginners share my concern of humiliation and judgement when faced with a shop full of staff who can undoubtedly play very well indeed.

Sax.co.uk have always shown to be helpful, even if they don't appreciate the Walstein I own for obvious reasons, they've never disparaged them to my face (as other dealers have when I was investigating Hanson's), they always take time to answer even my dumbest questions, and are always polite and keep their judgements to themselves (or at least wait until I'm out of the shop :whistle: )

I'll let you all know how it progresses!! Keep any ideas coming though.

Cheers

T.

 

[Bobby G]

Hi Lloyd, I for one have nothing against dear old Trevor, I had one of his Revolution II altos for a while as an upgrade to my first horn which was a fairly poor (looking back on it, but at least it got me going) Buescher Aristocrat 200. It was only because I got a good deal on my Yamaha 62 which involved px-ing the TJJ that meant I don't have it any more, but for that deal I'd probably still be tooting quite happily on it

 

[TonyMoroney]

I thought I'd resurrect this old thread with an update on my results. The mouthpiece had a lot to with my issues. I found myself at Sax.co.uk in London last week and decided to drop by and try some alto mouthpieces. Since it was on the way to a meeting I didn't have long, so I jumped straight in with the Otto STM 5* (I currently play an Otto 5* TM), and that found it restrictive too, went to the 6 and it was fantastic, tried the 7 and it was a bit too much for me at this stage. So there it is, my Tenor and Alto now have matching MPCs albeit the Tenor having a 5* and the Alto with a 6.

Thanks to everyone for your help with this.

As a side note, the dude in the store tried to sell me a ligature, I wasn't paying much attention at the time, so didn't catch the name of the lig, but it was about ?42, and the guy said that the pairing was "classic" and probably the most popular for the Otto STM. Is there such a thing as an ideal match (isn't it subjective?), sadly I didn't get a chance to try it out as I was i a hurry by this point.

Cheers

T