Scam/Fake? MK VI with double key arms!?

[Pete Thomas]

https://reverb.com/item/79752898-a-modern-reproduction-of-the-selmer-mark-vi-alto-sax

 

[Pete Thomas]

This horn has been for sale for over a year now. Who wouldn't want a MKVI with double key arms

 

[Colin the Bear]

Ying tong ying tong ying tong ying tong. 🐼

 

[Ghr9204]

https://reverb.com/item/79752898-a-modern-reproduction-of-the-selmer-mark-vi-alto-sax

Looks like it was sold or withdrawn, as link now shows multiple sax listings titled, "Similar Listings".

Since the patent has expired, I see nothing wrong with manufacturing a sax with duplicate proportions and metallugy. Where the rub is that it has the branding of the Selmer. If instead it had say, their own branding with a statement that they duplicated the time honoured Selmer Mark VI, giving Selmer credit for it, or even contacted Selmer to obtain concurrence on the labeling thereof, then it would be truthful and no harm done.

In fact, that might improve their sales. Or, it could provide an opportunity in trade agreement for Selmer to market it as a Selmer stencil. Regarding the extra brace on pads, perhaps it could be expressed in marketing as to improve stability of the lower pads?

There is nothing to be gained by being less than "up-front" about the item.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Looks like it was sold or withdrawn, as link now shows multiple sax listings titled, "Similar Listings".

No it’s still there from what I see.

Where the rub is that it has the branding of the Selmer.

Well yes that’s what makes it a counterfeit item.

Selmer. If instead it had say, their own branding with a statement that they duplicated the time honoured Selmer Mark VI, giving Selmer credit for it,

Except that it is just a generic Chinese saxophone. It’s not a duplicate of a MKVI

 

[Ghr9204]

No it’s still there from what I see.

My bad, yes, you are correct. I didn't scroll far enough down.

Well yes that’s what makes it a counterfeit item.

Precisely. This is telling:

Also there is solder oversplash on the post soldered joints.

Except that it is just a generic Chinese saxophone. It’s not a duplicate of a MKVI

I should have scrutinised it more closely. Yes, it is amazing.

Unfortunately it is with other items too, such as with home improvement items, even motorcycle parts. Thus, it is better to purchase an item from a reputable store or source, on-line or brick and mortar, because at least they prescreen what they sell.

Plus, there are even fakes of reputable Chinese manufactured items. A friend gave me some servos he purchased cheap for radio controlled planes on the 'bay. They would not centre properly after return to neutral. Yet they looked exactly the same but pure junk.

 

[jazzdoh]

The golden rule is still "if it's too good to be true it generally is".

 

[Pete Thomas]

Seller probably thinks as they are calling it a replica that makes it OK. But the crime here is the counterfeit Selmer logo, but even then there is more misleading info that says it is a replica, ie exact copy, but it isn't a copy of a MKVI anyway.

 

[Ghr9204]

The good is that it has been clearly identified here as a fake. It adds meaning to the maxim, "Buyer Beware". It is a marketing gimmick to drive the cost of sales up for a sax that would sell for half to two-thirds that.

Interestingly, a check on the 'bay US shows the same model with double supported bell pad cups to be stamped as Suzuki, Yamaha, Sertur, Midway, Hilax, Buffet Crampon & etc. Someone is taking unashamed liberty to do this.

 

[SaxBoss]

They always look scrappy.

 

[Trigger]

This was on eBay too
To which I reported it both to the seller and
EBay ,
EBay funnily said they could find nothing wrong with the listing although the seller did take it down I presume as it became no longer available

 

[Ghr9204]

This was on eBay too To which I reported it both to the seller and EBay , EBay funnily said they could find nothing wrong with the listing although the seller did take it down I presume as it became no longer available

This is unfortunate as they seem more interested in profit versus what is right.

Also oddly about 6 years ago I bought an inexpensive gig bag for my soprano sax. When it arrived, I tried it, was too short by about 25 mm. It was also tight around the bell.

I gave seller a neutral rating as the dimensions were given but the item was falsely described. Seller sent me a smoking mad PM about my comment.

I decided not to reply. Although I have a 100% rating as a buyer, EBay deleted my comment without contacting me.

Essentially they gave her a "Get out of jail free" card. I use it as a case for my portable music stand. Since, I've been more careful about my purchases.

 

[adysaxman]

The problem is, as well as all the copywrite law breaking, and the false design. Is that the seller is charging around double the price, than if you were to order the sax from China yourself! Nothing like fleecing people under the guise of a copy...

 

[Pete Thomas]

EBay funnily said they could find nothing wrong with the listing

This is to be expected, generally they only take notice if the actual rights holder. That’s because they get a lot of bogus reports from vendor competitors. Hence they may only take notice from Selmer. They do not keep a team of saxophone experts so they have no reason to think when you make a report you may be just trying to damage a competitor.

Best to report it to Selmer.

 

[Ghr9204]

This is to be expected, generally they only take notice if the actual rights holder. That’s because they get a lot of bogus reports from vendor competitors. Hence they may only take notice from Selmer. They do not keep a team of saxophone experts so they have no reason to think when you make a report you may be just trying to damage a competitor.

Best to report it to Selmer.

This advice makes the greatest sense, as it puts the onus on the one whose reputation (Selmer or major local Selmer distributor) is at stake and relieves the one pointing this out as being blamed for simply pointing out discrepancies as a 3rd party.

Regarding competitor madness ➠

this I have personally witnessed, of all places in two model aeroplane forums with the same Internet auction seller, who tried to "low ball" (a low offer almost an insult - souly for maximum profitability) a non-computer literate elderly man at the twilight of his life getting out of the hobby. He had about 50 to 75 engines in his collection to sell. Some were low time used engines in good condition, some were new in original boxes.

The one posting the ad for this elder was lambasted by this castigator and his forum friends, requiring the administration to get involved, who deleted their posts. Most telling was the disrespectful language portrayed toward this elderly man that was totally uncalled for.

As a result I have avoided this seller totally as well as the one who falsely advertised a soprano sax gigbag.