Playing the saxophone Left hand/arm tension while playing

[Bluesgal]

Hi everyone, new to the forum, but not new to playing. Looking for some advice on proper ergonomics for playing the tenor while standing. After about 20 years of playing (and about 3 years of daily jazz practice), I've notice some tension in my left hand, wrist, base of thumb, and forearm. Right hand/arm is fine. I use a Jazzlab neck strap, but also have a Balam harness which I've had some difficulty adjusting, but willing to keep trying. What's happening is if I hold the sax to the side against my right leg/hip, it moves too much to the left and I have to push it with my left hand/thumb to keep it straight. I think that's what's causing the tension. It's better if I just balance it against the front of my right thigh but still having trouble. FWIW I'm short, around 5'4" and I have smaller lady hands. I've gone over videos, Reddit, YouTube, and a lot of discussion around making sure the strap is doing the work (which it is), but really haven't found much about solving this problem specifically. Wrists look straight, I've tried moving neck/mouthpiece to keep my head straight. I suspect it has to do with the Jazzlab (even though I love it and takes all the weight off) but the sax still seems to pivot a lot, even though though the center piece is fully extended. Possible solutions; swap out springs for lighter tension, try the Balam, ease up on the left hand (not squeeze too much), practicing every other day or long tones in between, strength training for hands/forearms. Switching to alto not really an option. Tenor is my thing, but I do have an alto. Any suggestions are welcome. Thanks!

 

[Colin the Bear]

It is possible to play a saxophone without using your thumbs.

Set the sling/harness and crook so that it hangs in a playable position.

Although this is not an ideal position it does let you know how little input your thumbs need to have and let's your fingers glide over the keys.

Right thumb needs to have the major input imo, but beware of gripping. The dreaded gorilla grip to combat leaks, will soon tire hands.

Some vintage horns need to have the sling ring moved to achieve a better balance.

 

[turf3]

Well, from the description it sounds like it wants to move too far to the left?

I'd suspect that the strap ring location is causing the horn to twist a bit which can throw everything off. Try, first, just changing the angle of the neck in the horn, even though it may cause you to have to flex your wrists or point the bell in a slightly weird direction.

I'd try a plain garden variety strap, Ray Hyman type, not for extended use, but to see if the strap is somehow contributing. (As I read your post again, it occurs to me that your harness thingy may be fixing the hook to the left or to the right and not allowing the hook to move freely side to side, thus overconstraining the position of the horn. Try to see if that's what's happening. If it is, it might be possible to put a little short chain on the strap ring, just so the horn can move left or right a bit more easily. But I'm still going to bet for moving the ring left or right on the horn. After all, the horn was desgined on the asssumption that players would be using an ordinary neck strap.)

I suspect that moving the strap ring to the left or right will be the cure. I have had to do this once - my main tenor required me to change the angle of the neck between sitting and standing. If I left it the same, one of those positions I'd be having to try to twist the horn in my hands. A fairly small move (like maybe 3/16") to the left or right (can't remember which) solved the problem, and now I play sitting or standing with comfort and the same neck installation position either way.

 

[Targa]

Using the Jazzlab sitting down I found it more comfortable to have the abdomen piece sitting a couple of inches to the right rather than centre.
That might or might not help you.

 

[skeller047]

I’m old, and taller than you, but when standing I want the horn to be in line with my right leg, not to the side. When sitting, the horn is to my right, but I am more comfortable if I push it forward to just behind my knee, rather than at my hip or mid-thigh. In both cases, my right hand (right thumb, really) pushes the horn out front a bit.

If that’s not possible with your current straps, try a standard neck strap. D’Addario are cheap and work well; or maybe just go to a music store and try one out. If that solves the problem, then look at a more comfortable strap like a Just Joe’s or Cebulla.

If that DOESN’T solve the problem then, as @turf3 says, you may need to have your strap ring moved. Though I’ve never played a tenor, including Conns with their “snake bite” tendency, that I couldn’t get to sit properly. Make sure your strap is adjusted so the mouthpiece is in the proper position, all the weight is on the strap, and use the right thumb to steer the horn.

 

[turf3]

I’m old, and taller than you, but when standing I want the horn to be in line with my right leg, not to the side. When sitting, the horn is to my right, but I am more comfortable if I push it forward to just behind my knee, rather than at my hip or mid-thigh. In both cases, my right hand (right thumb, really) pushes the horn out front a bit.

If that’s not possible with your current straps, try a standard neck strap. D’Addario are cheap and work well; or maybe just go to a music store and try one out. If that solves the problem, then look at a more comfortable strap like a Just Joe’s or Cebulla.

If that DOESN’T solve the problem then, as @turf3 says, you may need to have your strap ring moved. Though I’ve never played a tenor, including Conns with their “snake bite” tendency, that I couldn’t get to sit properly. Make sure your strap is adjusted so the mouthpiece is in the proper position, all the weight is on the strap, and use the right thumb to steer the horn.

From the description it seems that OP is using a harness or strap that fixes the left/right position of the hook. Or at least, restricts it. This seems on the face of it to be an ergonomic issue in the making. I think I'd start out with a standard strap, because with one of those the left/right position of the hook is pretty much unconstrained (the strap just slides semi-freely around your neck as you pull the horn left or right).

I will say that the various alternative "strap" designs I've tried - and it's not very many - all have seemed to overconstrain the position of the horn, leading to discomfort. I've always ended by giving up on the idea and returning to the standard strap.

 

[mizmar]

As a "left field" idea - you might try playing in front of a full length mirror. Check out your overall posture. There are videos of folks, of all sizes and shapes, playing... How do you compare?
Check your stance is strong and stable, you're not twisting or hunching; head to feet.

 

[Tenor Viol]

I think checking stance in a mirror is a very good idea. I assume you are moving/rotating the neck and mouthpiece to allow for the fact that the sax is to the side? I use a Jazzlab on tenor and don't have any issues. Is the length correct? You should only need to push the sax away with the right thumb and no more i.e. no lifting.

 

[Woodpad]

In the past decades the curl on the tenor crook has changed slightly. When you put them flat on the tenon side the cork is now a few cm higher. When possible try out the balance of an older type and see if it is more comfortable.

 

[ghostler]

What's happening is if I hold the sax to the side against my right leg/hip, it moves too much to the left and I have to push it with my left hand/thumb to keep it straight. I think that's what's causing the tension. It's better if I just balance it against the front of my right thigh but still having trouble. FWIW I'm short, around 5'4" and I have smaller lady hands. [...] but the sax still seems to pivot a lot, even though though the center piece is fully extended.

This forum has women who play tenor sax, whom I think would have a better idea on how to mitigate your discomfort, which is a combination of your physiology including height, arm length and hip width, which would affect how the sax hangs to the side of your body. Any ideas @helen , @Jeanette that may help @Bluesgal ?

What I think what may be happening is that being shorter means the tenor hangs a touch lower than with us taller guys plus having wider hips places it out more making it angle greater. Therefore, more pressure is being applied to your left shoulder causing circulation to be hindered tiring your left arm.

Thus I am wondering if use of a standard neck strap with some form of padding to spread the weight over a larger area of your neck / shoulder might provide better comfort.

Here, I did a search on Amazon.com using the search term, "padding for arm sling neck strap":

Perhaps something like this may help with better comfort during standing for rehearsal / performance? Someone here also suggested having a tech modify your tenor with a longer neck strap hook with muliple locations to hook onto, so you can find a more comfortable place to balance the tenor?

Another idea maybe use a sax stool, which by supporting the bell may relieve some of the weight?

Otherwise I think you may have to go all out and learn to play the bari. 😉 (Some have a leg to support the bell.)

 

[Woodpad]

When you consider more padding on a neck strap, first check if you have a forward neck posture (not the saxophone neck). A forward neck posture is not ideal for saxophone, but you see a lot of saxophone players with it. Often with very well padded straps. A small amount of forward neck postures are caused by the medical condition Buffalo hump (dorsocervical fat pad). This makes it difficult to give a laymans advise on this issue.

 

[Jeanette]

This forum has women who play tenor sax, whom I think would have a better idea on how to mitigate your discomfort, which is a combination of your physiology including height, arm length and hip width, which would affect how the sax hangs to the side of your body. Any ideas @helen , @Jeanette that may help @Bluesgal ?

Lots of good advice so far. Sorry but I only play sop and very occasional alto so can't really help.

Jx