Tech/maintenance Leaks in top stack and low notes

[cappers]

Been playing my alto (YAS-25) after about a year off, and having some difficulty sounding low C#/B/Bb which don't sound well or overtone.
Using a PPT 5 it is hard, with the 4C less so, but I fnd the PPT far more sensitive to breath support and voicing than the 4C. I didn't have his problem before and not at all on tenor.

Checked with a leak light and noticed some very slight leaks in the upper stack.
I'm not sure of key/cup naming so simply, when I press A there is a tiny leak from the cup that closes with it and the cup below it.
Press G and a leak from the pad that closes with it, and a leak from G# pad.

Would these leaks make the bell key notes unstable and difficult? I know much of it is me getting used to alto again and the PPT but I'm sure these leaks aren't helping.

Thank you.

 

[cappers]

Some pics:

 

[mizmar]

Would these leaks make the bell key notes unstable and difficult?

In my limited experience, Oh yes!

I could speculate as to the physics, but meh.

To me, those are huge leaks

 

[cappers]

If I press the keys hard I can play through them (except the bell key notes!) but don't want to do that. The leaks in the photos are with gentle normal finger pressure.
Time for a visit to the sax doc.

 

[Dr G]

Check your tenor while you’re at it. Some players can play through a lot of leaks and never notice it - until they are gone. It’s a frog-in-a-pot kinda thing. Leaks will creep in and accumulate without notice and the player will keep accommodating until they cannot (and blame several innocent reeds along the way).

 

[cappers]

(and blame several innocent reeds along the way).

I did wonder about reeds and the mpc but mostly blamed myself. Lack of practice on the alto, different approach etc.
Once it's fixed we'll know if it was me or not

 

[PigSquealer]

Checked with a leak light and noticed some very slight leaks in the upper stack.
I'm not sure of key/cup naming so simply, when I press A there is a tiny leak from the cup that closes with it and the cup below it.
Press G and a leak from the pad that closes with it, and a leak from G# pad.

The A & G# could have leak issues related to regulation. The G is most likely an age related leak.

Take a moment to read this article from @Stephen Howard

Testing for leaky pads on woodwind instruments

How to test for leaking pads on a woodwind instrument.

www.shwoodwind.co.uk

I use paper strips from a shoebox. Cut the strips with the grain long. Long is the direction it tears easily.

 

[PigSquealer]

Would these leaks make the bell key notes unstable and difficult?

Leaks anywhere cause problems. Just think about how small the crook & body octave vent holes are. One little 2mm hole changes the sound a full octave.

 

[skeller047]

Those are significant, not small, leaks. If a horn came back from a shop visit like that I’d demand my money back and never return. They need attention now. Good thing you are taking it in.

 

[thomsax]

Maybe I'm wrong, but it looks like you have the leaks at the back of the toneholes. If a pad touches the front of the tone hole first the pad can be too thin. You can cure slighty leaks with a pad iron. The "heat/warmth" from a pad iron makes the skin/leather of the pad to floaten out a little bit. It looks like some the leaks are too big to cure with a pad iron.

 

[Stephen Howard]

Some pics:

This could be a bit worse than it already looks.
Thing is, most old pads will start leaking from the front. You do still see some that go at the back first, but it's nowhere near as common. And when they do go the leaks are usually quite small.
The leak on that G# looks massive - and that leads me to suspect that something's had a bit of a knock. If a key cops a whack it usually leaves the pad leaking at the front...so a rear leak is more likely to be caused by a knock to the body (usually via an adjacent pillar).
It's also often the case that such a knock will throw out the top stack pads too. I see this a lot where horns have been subjected to an impact while in the case (case shock).

On the other hand it could just be Yamaha pads. They tend to last a long time but when they give up they really do give up - and shrinkage is typical.

 

[cappers]

Thanks for all the replies.

I don't think the sax had a knock, I always handle it very carefully and it was kept in its case in a secure location when not in use.
I bought it in Dec 2024 and it needed a few new pads but was working fine when I put it away in March 2025.
I'll check the G# adjustment later and irrespective of the result will have it serviced ASAP.

I've been beating myself up over this, thinking I can't play alto and the problems are down to me. That may still be true but I'm sure the leaks aren't helping

Cheers.

 

[Vlad]

With leaks like that it isn't 'You' ! 😉

 

[cappers]

Tweaked the G# key a tad and it now seems to close better 🙂 Tested by playing low C and pressing G# and there wasn't a change in pitch or tone so I think its ok now.

Used a new Alexander Superial DC 1.5 reed on the PPT and.................ta-da!
The bell key notes are playing with less overtoning and overall the horn is more stable.

Still going to have it checked over but at least I know it wasn't all me, which is a relief!

Made my day.

 

[cappers]

Hmmm, rechecked wih the leak light and the G# still has a wafer thin leak, so put some Scotchtape over the pad where the gap is. Temporary fix but at least I can play it.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Old saxophones need regular adjustment. Tape on the pad isn't the way to go.

I bet you'd find a new horn a pleasure to play and it wiil hold regulation.

A TJ evo gets good reviews for playability and build quality.

Curly has one for £1170. Brand new.

Sell or trade in the yas25.

These old horns are for experienced home fetters. If they need to go into the shop for every little thing it can become expensive.

 

[cappers]

@Colin the Bear - I thought you played a YAS-25? Good horns IMHO and should hold regulation once set-up properly.

Tape on the pad isn't the way to go.

The tape is a temporary measure just to get it 'playable' until I can it repaired. I can sound the bell key notes better now but still get the odd squeal!

It's not some tatty student cast-off. It is a 1998 model in very good condition. It hadn't been played for several years when I got it and needed a few new pads and COA and has been fine since.

It has been sitting in its case since last March and maybe the G# pad has shrunk or died? I've adjusted the G# bar as much as I can without messing up F and below, but there is still a sliver of light coming through.

A TJ evo gets good reviews for playability and build quality.

Curly has one for £1170. Brand new.

Stop it Colin! 😉 My GAS is cured thank you! YTS-32 & Selmer Soloist-E, YAS-25 & PPT-5.
The alto is for my fun (our band needs more tenors not altos) and I don't need anything else (unless it turns out to be wreck not worth repairing but I don't think it is).

I'll updare once the horn has been looked at by someone who knows what they're doing!

 

[PigSquealer]

Hmmm, rechecked wih the leak light and the G# still has a wafer thin leak, so put some Scotchtape over the pad where the gap is. Temporary fix but at least I can play it.

At least you attempted to try something that’s reversible. You made change and witnessed the results. Proof it’s not the player.
A quality COA should have you fully operational. The body looks like it hasn’t been to the spa for years.
As a friendly suggestion. Let it sit at shop a few days after notice it’s ready. Let it settle some. Play for 10-15 or more minutes at the shop. Don’t be shy to give it a full stress test.

 

[JSL]

Would these leaks make the bell key notes unstable and difficult?

Absolutely!

If I press the keys hard I can play through them (except the bell key notes!) but don't want to do that. The leaks in the photos are with gentle normal finger pressure.
Time for a visit to the sax doc.

Your horn is full of leaks. So yes, time to visit a good tech and get that horn fixed. The issues you are experiencing are not down to you or the mpc; it's the horn needing repair.

Old saxophones need regular adjustment.

I take it you mean vintage vs modern horns. Both need maintenance and once put into top playing condition, an 'old' vintage horn will need no more maintenance than a brand-new horn. The horn doesn't wear out. Pads and other replaceable parts wear out and can be replaced.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Old as in old. A 30 year old horn is 30 years old. Leather, felt and cork degrade and become brittle or hard. Oil dries out and rust ensues. Glue stops sticking and bits wobble or fall off. Like many things, looking shiney isn't the criteria.

Stack adjusting screws make a Yam in good condition very easy to live with but for the kind of reliability an inexperienced beginner needs, a full refit is on the cards imo for any make after 3 decades of even just sitting on a shelf.

My 25's haven't had the full treatment so I'm constantly tweaking the regulation, replacing odd bits of cork, and the odd pad.

It's not a problem for a fettler. If a new reed doesn't sort the problem, I know it's not me so it goes on the coffee table for a leak light check and a tweak, but a beginner needs reliability.