Saxophones King 660 - Not sure who made this? King; Conn; Keilwerth; Armstrong...?

[JayeNM]

The 662 was the Tenor, yes....those are good horns.

Funny that an Alto reads 662.

Can you post a full photo of the sax ?

 

[crankshaftnorman5]

Has anyone seen a king model 662 ALTO sax? I just purchased a King alto and the model number engraved on the bell is 662. Everything I have read says all the model 662's were tenors and all altos were 660. Can anyone shed some light on this oddball? View attachment 15638

 

[crankshaftnorman5]

The 662 was the Tenor, yes....those are good horns.

Funny that an Alto reads 662.

Can you post a full photo of the sax ?

Full pic was loaded. Right side. It looks like a miss marked 660.

 

[DavidUK]

@crankshaftnorman5 - anyway... how does it play? Surprisingly well? Or does it need some work?

 

[JayeNM]

Full pic was loaded. Right side. It looks like a miss marked 660.

Yup that is what it is. Just someone in the factory grabbed the wrong stamp, lol. It's a 660.

So yours is, like the OP's.... the version which is pre-1980 ....and is a rebranded Conn 18 or 20M.

 

[crankshaftnorman5]

@crankshaftnorman5 - anyway... how does it play? Surprisingly well? Or does it need some work?

It plays great.

 

[ESJohn]

There is one for sale on ebay right now with bidding so far at $157.50 with a "buy it now" option for $500. The serial number is not shown. States The King Company (?) was legendary. Not sure about that since the King name went through so many owners.

 

[thomsax]

H.N. White company was legendary. And King Musical Instrument Inc was also a good company and made good saxes. King Musical Company Inc was a company that was owned by Seeburg. They earned thier money on jukeboxes. The market for jukeboxes more or less vanished during 70's. The company went in 1979 bankruptcy and from 1980 to 1983 King Musical Instruments Inc was maintained by the creditors. In 1983 Mr Heinkins bought King Musicial Instruments Inc and sold it in in 1985 to Skåne Gripen/UMI. UMI continued with new lines of King saxophones. According to my info UMI didn't make any King Super 20. I guess the King Super 20 trademark was under H.N. White ownership. UMI did a King Super 21 (just few). Steinway bought UMi in 2000. UMI moved the sax manufactoring to Nogales, AZ. I think the late UMI saxes were good. Not as good as an Cleveland made King Super 20.

 

[ESJohn]

Thanks Thomas! The seller of this one states that it was made in 1998 but it is stamped USA. I've wrote to that person to try to obtain more information. It is seller refurbished. Hope it is not re-lacqurered.

 

[thomsax]

King 660 alto and King 662 tenor were introduced c 1993. With or without high F#. Some have rolled tone holes. In 1997/1998 a 665 Empire replaced the 660. King 682 baritone low A. King 680 baritone to low Bb. Sonic XL 675 alto, Liberty 670 alto. All these except the 660 model are in UMI band instrument guide from 1997. CONNquest 4M, CONNtinetal 25m (high F#) American 24M (all altos), Conn Director 22M tenor, Conn Artist 13M bari low A and Conn 14M bari low Bb were the Conn models from the same time. All saxes were made in USA by UMI, Nogales according to UMI info. UMI sold curved sopranos as well but they were made outside USA.

 

[ESJohn]

The family has a website, hnwhite.com, where there is a great deal of information about the instruments and the company history. They also sell King instruments from the H N White days. The lowest priced one that I see right now is a 1953 King Zephyr for $1150.
Would (in general terms) the purchase of a 660 be a step up from the 613 vintage 1970? I've been feeling that I need to relieve some excess pressure from my checkbook.

 

[thomsax]

Would (in general terms) the purchase of a 660 be a step up from the 613 vintage 1970? I've been feeling that I need to relieve some excess pressure from my checkbook.

Depends on the condition of the 660. And what they are asking/price. So hard to say when a sax is a step up. If you like the 613 and you can play the kind of music you like/want then I don't see any reason to buy a "step up" model. I sold some (2)615 to guys who like to start playing sax again. Most of them were 30-35 years old and in middle of life. So they couldn't spend too much on a sax. And they are still blowing thier saxes.

 

[silver-sax]

I think UMI's last alto models were CONNguest model 4M and CONNtinental model 25M. The King siblings were King Sonic model 675 and King Liberty model 670. The reached the in mid 1997. So late UMI models. UMI was sold to Steinway-Selmer in 2000.

I have Conn 25M and King 670 altos. These saxophones have completely different sound.

 

[JayeNM]

King 670 'Liberty' is hardly ever seen, I mean literally I have seen two on eflay in the past 8 years...neither got any attention from buyers. Nobody knows what they are.

Does the King resemble the 25m in details, @silver-sax ?

The King Empire is identical to a 24m....it would be interesting if the King 67X models were actually a complete redesign.

 

[JayeNM]

Just for posterity sake...

The King 660 aka Conn 18m/20m.....the initial subject of this thread...


Is NOT a 'good' horn. I mean, it isn't garbage, but its pinky layout is not particularly ergonomically pleasing, its intonation is meh, and tonality is thin.

I mean, I would not recommend ever paying more than $250 for a playable one. They were a swing and a miss...

UMI did better with the Conn 24m and King Empire, the alto models which replaced the 660/ 20m.

THOSE I can recommend...but not the 80s models they displaced.

 

[thomsax]

I have Conn 25M and King 670 altos. These saxophones have completely different sound.

Conn 25M and King 670 are pretty much the same horn. I can't say if there is a difference when it comes to sound. Every sax is differnt. I haven't played these saxes. I left the music (sax) shop in 1995. In Sweden it was Muskantor & Co AB who distribuated these saxes.

 

[silver-sax]

This photo does not provide any significant or key information regarding the differences between the models. It contains only general data. Do you have any pricing information for the 4M, 25M, 670 and 675 models from the 1990s?

 

[turf3]

This photo does not provide any significant or key information regarding the differences between the models. It contains only general data. Do you have any pricing information for the 4M, 25M, 670 and 675 models from the 1990S?

In general, any of the UMI "Conns" are going to be very low market value. If that chart means they were making SIX different models at once, it's not hard to figure out why they cratered. At a time when Yamaha were covering the market from really good entry level student horns clear up to top pro models, Keilwerth was well into their brief but influential push into the US market, Yanagisawa had come out of the closet and were selling under their own name, Selmer had not started down the private equity path yet; yeah, UMI had quite the uphill battle trying to resurrect old names with instruments that had basically nothing to do with the King and Conn saxophones of yore.

 

[silver-sax]

I was referring to the official recommended prices from the 1990s. Not modern market prices. The actual market price can vary wildly. For instance, back in 2002, I bought a Selmer Mark VI for $350. Models like the Conn 4M and 25M or the King 670 and 675 are rare; hardly anyone has seen or even knows about them, except for saxophone "archaeologists." Personally, in the last 25 years I’ve only seen a 4M for sale twice and a King 675 just once!

 

[JayeNM]

This photo does not provide any significant or key information regarding the differences between the models. It contains only general data. Do you have any pricing information for the 4M, 25M, 670 and 675 models from the 1990s?

What in the world was a 4M ? Never have I heard of nor seen one...

There was a short lived 5M (very good, sister Tenor 9M) , then the 24M and 25M....as far as UMI Conn altos went....