Saxophones Which baritone to buy: Martin 12M or Keilwerth The New King?

sidenius · Dec 7, 2014

So here I am in search for a resonable priced baritone saxophone and seeking some advice.
I have two possibilities buying local in Denmark right now:
A low Bb 1955 Conn 12M Naked Lady (laquered) with it's original case = £2100 (newly overhauled)
A low Bb 1958 Keilwerth New King (laquered) with a Protec case = £1600 (overhauled 4 years ago and regularly serviced)

What I learned from my research is that the Conn is mouthpiece picky and the Keilwerth is not. So in case I bought the Conn I would probably have to by a new mouthpiece as well. (I have an Absolute Slim Resin baritone MP right now).

Which one do you think would be the best buy?

Bertil

kevgermany · Dec 7, 2014

Try playing both if you can. The New Kings were a lower priced range from Keilwerth, but Afik they had the same tube/sound as the Tone Kings.

aldevis · Dec 9, 2014

sidenius said:
low Bb 1955 Conn 12M Naked Lady (laquered) with it's original case = £2100 (newly overhauled)

A classic horn.
Not the easiest keywork, but usually great players. I cannot comment about the price.
I guess no rolled tone holes on yours.

sidenius said:
What I learned from my research is that the Conn is mouthpiece picky and the Keilwerth is not. So in case I bought the Conn I would probably have to by a new mouthpiece as well. (I have an Absolute Slim Resin baritone MP right now).

My only bari is a 12M from the 60s and my Absolute Resin plays nicely in tune (I am not a frequent bari player).
Our very Pete Thomas developed the PPT for a 12M, if I am not wrong. You never have enough mouthpieces....

Nick Wyver · Dec 9, 2014

I'd have to play them.
I have a 1937 12M but can only compare it to the Yanagisawa B900 which I usually play and prefer.
I have a 1958 Keilwerth Tone King tenor and I probably prefer the keywork on that to the old Conn.
If I couldn't play them I guess I'd go for the Keilwerth.

sidenius · Dec 9, 2014

Thank you very much for good advice!
Sometimes things suddenly evolve in a complete different direction.
While considering which one of the two buy and resarching on baritones in general , I came across Pete Thomas recommending the Grassi saxophones, and therefore did some additional research on other recommendations of Grassi.
Yesterday I ended up doing my first auction instrument purchase (on the italian Bay - thank God for Google Translate 🙂).
I bought a silver Grassi Professional 2000 low Bb baritone for £1350 including shipping from Italy.
The instrument was stated as being in playable condition.
Anyway - it looks really good according to the pictures
So here I am now just waiting for the courier to arrive and hopefully it lives up to my expectations and just need a minor adjustment at the tech, and in that case I expect it to be a better buy than the other two
Here's the only picture that was awailable after the auction had closed

Bertil

DavidUK · Dec 9, 2014

Well done, I have the Professional 2000 Tenor - it's my Tenor "Keeper".

Here's another shot of yours (just click on "see original listing": http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SASSOFONO...TE-/111536683849?pt=Legni&hash=item19f81abb49) ...

Looks to be in good condition. Unusual to see gold keys on silver body? Quite often the other way round.

sidenius · Dec 9, 2014

Thanks David.
Wow! It looks good!
Can't wait to see and play 🙂

DavidUK · Dec 10, 2014

No worries. Another?....

Jules · Dec 10, 2014

Does that mean the keilwerth's still up for grabs somewhere out there?

sidenius · Dec 10, 2014

Yes. It's for sale on the danish dba.dk (a site like gumtree.com)
Heres the link: http://www.dba.dk/saxofon-keilwerth-new-king/id-1010811177/
I know that it is a danish prof musician who are selling it.
I've corresponded with him and can PM you his mail address if you wish

thomsax · Dec 10, 2014

No rolled tonholes? I've never seen a Keilwerth (Nauheim) built baritone from the 50's before. Maybe they did baris with straight toneholes as well?

thomsax · Dec 16, 2014

I think this is a Keilwerth made (CZ) "King" from the late 30's (according to the serialnumber).
http://www.blocket.se/helsingborg/Barytonsaxofon_KING_fran_30_talet_57825845.htm?ca=23_15&w=3

MMM · Dec 16, 2014

sidenius said:
Thank you very much for good advice!
Sometimes things suddenly evolve in a complete different direction.
While considering which one of the two buy and resarching on baritones in general , I came across Pete Thomas recommending the Grassi saxophones, and therefore did some additional research on other recommendations of Grassi.
Yesterday I ended up doing my first auction instrument purchase (on the italian Bay - thank God for Google Translate 🙂).
I bought a silver Grassi Professional 2000 low Bb baritone for £1350 including shipping from Italy.
The instrument was stated as being in playable condition.
Anyway - it looks really good according to the pictures
So here I am now just waiting for the courier to arrive and hopefully it lives up to my expectations and just need a minor adjustment at the tech, and in that case I expect it to be a better buy than the other two
Here's the only picture that was awailable after the auction had closed

Bertil

So you basically got a 12m with modern keywork, not a bad choice! This is also the later Pro 2000, with the "balanced" LH little finger spatulas (unlike my "Model 2000"), so no sore little finger when playing down to C#!
Let us know how you get on and "complimenti" on the new purchase!
M.