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Saxophones ISO 1951 Keilwerth "The New King" Series ii Tenor Neck

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Delorean14

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Illinois
Hello everyone! I have been playing sax since 4th grade. Took a break for about 10 years after college and got back into it about 10 years ago. I've been playing the same tenor saxophone since 5th grade. I had always been told that it was a "junker," so I treated it like crap for the majority of my school career. I recently found out that it's a fairly rare (<1000 made) post WWII Keilwerth "The New King" Series ii stenciled with "Whitehall." I had it overhauled and they informed me that it does not have the original neck on it, which makes sense because they've always mated/lined up a bit weirdly. The repair tech thinks that I have an old Conn neck on it. He hypothesizes that two sax players swapped necks back in the day.
Fast forward to now: I'd love to have an original neck for my horn. I also understand that this is a long shot, so I don't expect any results but it can't hurt to ask. I am absolutely in love with this tenor all over again to the point that I finally sold off my Selmer Super Action 80 that has been sitting in its case for a decade. Any help/leads would be greatly appreciated!! Thank you to all!
Oh, I also realized that I am 100% a Keilwerth fanboy. So much so that I bought a copper plated SX90II soprano after my overhaul was finished!
 
thomsax

thomsax

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Yes, these Keilwerths are cool. A "lefty" with the bell keys on the left side of bell. Martin and Conn had also the bell keys on the left side of the bell back in the early 50's. Softsoldered toneholes? The toneholes rims are broad. But I can't see if they have beveled toneholes rims? They are made in Nauheim, Germany. The rumour says that these saxes were made while Keilwerth company was waiting to get their tools and equipment out of CZ. Keilwerth built most of their saxes with drawn toneholes. And it was the same with Kohlert (Winnenden) and Hohner (Tossingen) they also made saxes with (soft)soldered toneholes.

I was close to buy one of these Keilwerths. A nice player. Back in the late 70's or early 80's (I don't remember) my friend had an Keilwerth alto from this era. He bought his sax without a neck. He used different necks but it was hard for him to play with a replacement neck on his Keilwerth. He used to drive down in Europe and he planned a vaccation so he drove down to Nauheim. He handed over his sax and some weeks later he picked his sax with a brand new neck. He told me that the persons at Keilwerth were very helpful and friendly. Proud instrument builders. This was before B&H era.

A # 25XXX Keiwerth is built in the mid 50's. So maybe a rebuilt Keilwerth neck from the mid 50's can be be an alternative? A Keilwerth neck had the same "combined neck" style as Martin but the ID neck joint (bore) is smaller on the Keilwerth neck. I think the same goes for tenors. A used Dörfler & Jörka neck would probably be less money. A keilwerth New King use to go for 8000.00-10000.00 s e k over here. A D&J för c 2000.00.

A Keilwerth made neck from the mid 50's compared to a "The Martin Alto" neck from 1957. Keilwerth to the left.
Combinedsaxnecks 001
A D&J (#16XXX) from 1963.
DJnacke
 
D

Delorean14

New Member
Messages
4
Locality
Illinois
Yes, these Keilwerths are cool. A "lefty" with the bell keys on the left side of bell. Martin and Conn had also the bell keys on the left side of the bell back in the early 50's. Softsoldered toneholes?
The toneholes rims are broad. But I can't see if they have beveled toneholes rims?
Yes, it has soldered tone holes that are not beveled, or it so appears.
They are made in Nauheim, Germany. The rumour says that these saxes were made while Keilwerth company was waiting to get their tools and equipment out of CZ. Keilwerth built most of their saxes with drawn toneholes. And it was the same with Kohlert (Winnenden) and Hohner (Tossingen) they also made saxes with (soft)soldered toneholes.
Yeah I have done extensive research on this tenor at this point. I can't get enough of the history of it!
I was close to buy one of these Keilwerths. A nice player. Back in the late 70's or early 80's (I don't remember) my friend had an Keilwerth alto from this era. He bought his sax without a neck. He used different necks but it was hard for him to play with a replacement neck on his Keilwerth. He used to drive down in Europe and he planned a vaccation so he drove down to Nauheim. He handed over his sax and some weeks later he picked his sax with a brand new neck. He told me that the persons at Keilwerth were very helpful and friendly. Proud instrument builders. This was before B&H era.

A # 25XXX Keiwerth is built in the mid 50's.
From what I have researched I have concluded that my Keilwerth tenor is from 1951. It's S/N: 21016. I tried putting my Super Action 80 neck on it a long time ago. The SA80 neck comically fits completely inside the Keilwerth tenon. It had to be 1/8" smaller diameter, at least. That's when I knew that this horn was a bit different. Bigger bore than the Selmer. So are you saying that a mid 50's Keilwerth rebuilt neck would fit my early 50's body? Thank you so much for replying!
 
thomsax

thomsax

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Sweden
So are you saying that a mid 50's Keilwerth rebuilt neck would fit my early 50's body?
I'm not sure but you can always try one if there is neck to try out. I know a guy that is playing a Selmer MkVI neck on his COUF. I use(d) to change necks on my saxes. I just have six tenors left (the 1955 "The Martin Tenor and Magna neck is the same). It's not only the diameter that matters when it comes o necks. The 3 first have all I.D. 26 mm. O.D 28 mm. The fourth is I.D. 26,5 mm O.D. 28,5 mm. The fifth is I.D. 27 mm O.D. 28,5 mm. The tenon joint is shorter on the first neck.

From top to bottom:
  1. "Klingsor"/Hammerschimdt silver neck from 1956.
  2. "Diamond"/Dörfler und Jörka gl neck from 1963.
  3. "The NewKing"/Keilwerth black and gold neck from 1968
  4. Martin Handcraft (Committee) should be gl, now bare brass from 1938.
  5. "The Martin Magna Tenor" from 1959.
Nackar
 
D

Delorean14

New Member
Messages
4
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Illinois
My neck is OD 28.5mm and ID 27mm. Tenon length is 21.5mm. I guess I should just keep my eyes open on the old interweb's auction sites for necks with these measurements, or at least the OD and the length, maybe? The repair tech said that the receiver isn't quite made for this neck, but it was close enough that he was easily able to make it air tight. By the way, THANK YOU for the conversation, this has been extremely helpful.
Neck
 
mizmar

mizmar

Senior Member
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Trondheim, Norway
I'm not sure but you can always try one if there is neck to try out. I know a guy that is playing a Selmer MkVI neck on his COUF. I use(d) to change necks on my saxes. I just have six tenors left (the 1955 "The Martin Tenor and Magna neck is the same). It's not only the diameter that matters when it comes o necks. The 3 first have all I.D. 26 mm. O.D 28 mm. The fourth is I.D. 26,5 mm O.D. 28,5 mm. The fifth is I.D. 27 mm O.D. 28,5 mm. The tenon joint is shorter on the first neck.

From top to bottom:
  1. "Klingsor"/Hammerschimdt silver neck from 1956.
  2. "Diamond"/Dörfler und Jörka gl neck from 1963.
  3. "The NewKing"/Keilwerth black and gold neck from 1968
  4. Martin Handcraft (Committee) should be gl, now bare brass from 1938.
  5. "The Martin Magna Tenor" from 1959.
View attachment 20505
You could weld those together..
 

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