John Coltrane book and cd

[helena]

I had some free time today, so I popped into a Borders Bookshop in Milton Keynes and found the Ashley Khan A love supreme book, and then found the Love supreme deluxe CD - wow - I am looking forward to some quiet time to do some reading - the book looks great. Has anyone else read it?

Helen

 

[peter_fitton]

Not read that one but have read Lewis Porter's excellent biography of Coltrane, which contains a lot of musical analysis and transcriptions of solos etc. It also reveals Trane to have been a gentle, thoughtful man of enormous integrity. Very highly recommended.

The only problem with the deluxe edition of A Love Supreme - and I'll possibly get flamed for this, lol - is that it includes the live version of the suite, which, IMHO, is a bit of a dog's breakfast and largely unlistenable. But never mind.

On the subject of ALS, am I the only person puzzled as to why it seems to be regarded as Coltrane's masterpiece? Don't get me wrong, it's a good record and well worth having but I could think of several 'trane albums - Crescent, Afro Blue, the 2 Meditations albums, Lush Life, Live at Byrdland just of the top of my head that seem to me to be vastly superior. Still, at least 'trane left his soprano at home for ALS >.<

Cheers and happy listening/reading

Peter

 

[helena]

thanks - I aim to read it next week, so I will let you know

Helen

 

[raindog]

Peter Fitton wrote:
The only problem with the deluxe edition of A Love Supreme - and I'll possibly get flamed for this, lol - is that it includes the live version of the suite, which, IMHO, is a bit of a dog's breakfast and largely unlistenable. But never mind.

On the subject of ALS, am I the only person puzzled as to why it seems to be regarded as Coltrane's masterpiece? Don't get me wrong, it's a good record and well worth having but I could think of several 'trane albums - Crescent, Afro Blue, the 2 Meditations albums, Lush Life, Live at Byrdland just of the top of my head that seem to me to be vastly superior. Still, at least 'trane left his soprano at home for ALS >.<

Proobably because its his biggest selling! Read on the blue train album that it hold postition 2. I have read crescent to be similar but superior to ALS several times, although not heard it yet myself. I've not heard the live version of ALS but really want to! I think ascension is a work of genius so expect the live ALS to appeal to me!
Whats wrong with his soprano?! Dont you like my fave things?!

 

[peter_fitton]

My Favourite Things? Yeah it's ok. Well, I can take it or leave it to be honest. No, not a big fan of Trane's soprano playing in general. Couple of tracks I quite like his sop on: Spiritual from Afro Blue (2nd half of which is on sop) and Living Space (multi-tracked sopranos, sounds great).

If you like ALS then check out Song of Praise from the John Coltrane Quartet Plays album. Very, very much in the ALS vein - much more so than anything else he ever recorded, I'd have thought - and at least as good as any of the 4 ALS tracks. Excellent and ludicrously underrated track.

Cheers

Peter

 

[raindog]

I think what coltrane does with fave things is genius - a song that I really cant stand in its original form. The only other soprano track of his iv heard is every time we say good bye which I dont like much but then I dont like cole porter.
Never heard of JC quartet plays album before but punchd it into amazon there to have a look. Is the first track the dik vandyke/mary popppins song?!

 

[peter_fitton]

yes it is. And it's soprano too. Not my cuppa tea but quite fun I guess.

I think the studio recording of MFT is quite nice but am not keen on the several live versions with lots of soprano 'noodling'. 'trane noodling on soprano doesn't do it for me at all, I'm afraid.

Good version of Nature Boy on that album too, and a lengthy tenor work out called Brazillia, which ain't bad either.

 

[Bobby G]

I like Ascension a lot too (I have the CD with the second take) but can't listen to it very often. Trane covered such a lot of ground, like Miles, that it would be almost impossible to like everything, but I do love the 'classic' quartet - one of my favourites is the album simply called Coltrane, which contains tunes like Miles' Mode and Tunji, but I also love the more straight-ahead things like the Blue Train album, and Lush Life. I have yet to delve into the very latest, post-Ascension stuff.

One of the things I especially like about the classic quartet is the 'churning' effect you get from McCoy Tyner's piano and Elvin Jones' drumming, which doesn't leave a lot of space for poor old Jimmy Garrison's bass. I've never been sure about his bass-playing, he sometimes sounds like he's a bit lost! Maybe someone could put me right.

I also like the quartet augmented by Eric Dolphy (man, that bass clarinet!), plus the droney oud on the live version of India. Plus the rich, dark background horns on the Africa Brass album lend a different tone, there's something absolutely huge about that sound, and the two basses defintely give it something.

My Favorite Things is something I need to be in the mood for, and there are many, many versions available, lasting anything up to an hour I believe. The version I am most familiar with is the live one on the Best Of compilation, which also contains the original studio recording - this to my ears doesn't quite make it, as it sounds a little hesitant. And of course his playing on Kind Of Blue is just sublime, along with all the others - I think Bill Evans piano style really reined him in to a much more melodic and lyrical style.

 

[philthd]

crescent is a good album - a little like als but a touch more traditionional
im a huge fan of dakar, which is moody and bluesy (and has pepper adams on)

ascension is a masterpiece but not very accessible

als is just a truly outstanding album. deep and passionate, personal and ethereal. on a musical level i can see why you might make an argument for another album, but in terms of eliciting an empathic response i dont think anything does better than als.

 

[Bobby G]

I find the last section of A Love Supreme, the out-of-tempo part, very moving as it doesn't bater your ears but is truly uplifting. Along these lines, but with a strong sense of tragedy, the opening of Alabama works in a similar way. I think this again is down to the Tyner/Jones churning and roiling affect which although it isn't acually rhythmic does have a sense of the arc or shape of the tune.

 

[peter_fitton]

Bobby G wrote:

One of the things I especially like about the classic quartet is the 'churning' effect you get from McCoy Tyner's piano and Elvin Jones' drumming, which doesn't leave a lot of space for poor old Jimmy Garrison's bass. I've never been sure about his bass-playing, he sometimes sounds like he's a bit lost! Maybe someone could put me right.

I have a bit of a problem with Garrison too, though not with his ensemble bass playing, which I think is excellent. No, it's his solos, which I have to say I find monumentally dull. The aforementioned Song of Praise opens with a long (about 4 mins) Garrison solo, and it's actually one of his better ones ... but it might explain why the track isn't better known.

And where does that lengthy solo on the otherwise sublime Lonnie's Lament go? Well, nowhere really.

Still, I'm carping, the four of them were unquestionably a fantastic band.

Totally agree with your comments about Alabama. One of 'trane's very finest tracks. Also think that Psalm is the best part of the ALS suite. It's surprising how many see it as somehow anti-climactic and a bit of a let down; it's gorgeous.

Cheers

Peter

 

[philthd]

on the double cd version with the live cd are outtakes from a the session with an extra bass and tenor player

art davis and garrisons bass duet is better than any of the bass solos on the album

and psalm is the whole point of als - to me the whole album builds towards it

 

[raindog]

Only really heard the studio version of my fave things. I find the soprano to be quite a noodly instrument but maybe its the stuff I happened to have heard! I do like it none the less, noodling seems better on the soprano rather than alto, tenor or trumpet maybe?!

I do listen to ascension quite a bit, I think its much better than ornette coleman's free jazz (obvious comparison). The ensemble bits can get a bit boring/samey/annoying though after a while and the alto soloist sound like they dont really know what they're doing! The second alto(cant remember who) is particularly uninspiring. Coltrane and sanders solos are quite amazing.

listened to samples from interstellar space on amazon, the album with only coltrane and rashid ali on drums. Sounds a lot like coltranes solo on ascension

Picked up mccoy tyner - the real mccoy today for the bargain price of ?3 out fopp, will put that on soon

 

[peter_fitton]

Post ALS Coltrane music has a fearsome reputation but a lot of it is surprisingly accessible.

Particular faves of mine are the Meditations and First Meditations albums, both of which have numbers of outstanding lyric beauty - check out the gorgeous Love which occurs on both, as does Serenity which is also quite beautiful. For exhilarating free jazz there's also The Father and The Son and The Holy Ghost on Meditations. It's a blast!

Sun Ship is another excellent album from this era. Especially the track Attaining, which is centred around one of those snaking, sinuous melody lines a la Alabama, Psalm, the Drum Thing et al. One of 'trane's finest.

Peter

 

[Bobby G]

Raindog, that McCoy Tyner album is great and quite accessible, some splendid tenor playing too. If you like that, try and find the recordings of Tyner playing behind Freddie Hubbard's trumpet; I find Tyner's style of chord-playing gives a good darkness and density while not overwhelming the other instruments.

I also really like Ornette Coleman's 'Free Jazz' album (the double quartet with, again, Freddie Hubbard's trumpet, although to me Don Cherry seems to play more naturally in the Ornette style) as well as the related, kind of 'condensed', 'Twins', the ideas of this were expanded for 'Free Jazz'.

Anyway, to return to the topic, briefly.... Helen? Helen! Did you read the book and listen to the CD yet? What did you think?

 

[helena]

hi there
I am half way through the book - on my list for some Easter reading.....just not enough hours in the waking day at the moment. The book is really informative, I am learning lots - and it really endorses what my teacher says about practising my scales.
As for the music itslef - amazing. I have only listened to the CD in tehcar, again, next weekend I will find some time to enjoy it at home.
Regards
Helen