Beginner impro Is B# the same note as C?

[cappers]

I would like to check something please, just want to ensure I'm correct.

I have a piece in E Major so the key sig has F# C# G# D#. The intro is C# B# C# A C# B C# A repeated 2x.

I think B# is enharmonic to C so do I play C natural or C# as in the key sig?

Thank you.

 

[cappers]

"This is the piece, Attics of My Life. Looks like E Maj but may well be C# Major with the same 4 sharps?"

C# minor has 4 sharps
C# Major has 7 sharps.
The B# is just a note in the slightly dissonant intro.
Put on the blinders and practice
the horns. Memorize scales, arpeggios and tunes. 🎶🏴‍☠️🎶

Yes thank you, I confused C#Maj with C#minor!

Edited to add:

C#Major is I believe the enharmonic equivalent Db Major but it contains five flats as opposed to C# Major has seven sharps?
Maybe I have an incorrect version but I don't see C#Major on the cycle of 5ths?
From Wikipedia showing C#Major and CbMajor......

 

[mizmar]

Maybe I have an incorrect version but I don't see C#Major on the cycle of 5ths?

You have correctly identified it.
It's there.

Getting the old noodle fried by enharmonics is a right of passage.

 

[cappers]

You have correctly identified it.
It's there.

Getting the old noodle fried by enharmonics is a right of passage.

Cheers, I found the the Wiki version above with C# and Cb but was originally referring to PT's version....

Getting the hang of it now, many thanks to all for the explanations

Off to 'Put on the blinders and practice the horns. Memorize scales, arpeggios and tunes. 🎶🏴‍☠️🎶" as @PiccoloPirate advised (I practice them every day but it takes time for it to sink in!)

 

[Pete Thomas]

Cheers, I found the the Wiki version above with C# and Cb but was originally referring to PT's version....

You can continue round the circle if you really want to, but it starts to get cluttered

 

[Subtilior]

what's the interval called between a natural and a #/b, a 1/nth??

F - F# is a chromatic semitone. F# - G is a diatonic semitone.

 

[cappers]

Thank you all, this place is such a great source of knowledge and guidance, kind and friendly to us starters
My teacher is away until next month and you have answered my questions in his absence.
Onwards and upwards......

 

[cappers]

F - F# is a chromatic semitone. F# - G is a diatonic semitone.

Chromatic semitones - semitone interval where the two notes have the same letter name.
Diatonic semitones - semitone interval where the two notes have different letter names.

Getting there!

 

[Subtilior]

Chromatic semitones - semitone interval where the two notes have the same letter name.
Diatonic semitones - semitone interval where the two notes have different letter names.

Getting there!

Once upon a time (i.e. before equal temperament) these were different sizes of interval.

 

[cappers]

Once upon a time (i.e. before equal temperament) these were different sizes of interval.

I doubt I'll be studying Baroque or other early repertoires! Thanks though, all grist to the mill.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Because the pitch of a note on saxophone is flexible, when playing by ear, you'll be using just intonation to achieve that perfect harmony. Meanwhile the piano and to a certain extent the guitar will be bumbling along with dissonant equal temperament.

This makes it clear.

View: https://youtu.be/6NlI4No3s0M?si=1bzs3Qux2_reUy8N

 

[Pete Thomas]

Once upon a time (i.e. before equal temperament) these were different sizes of interval.

They still are quite often

 

[cappers]

Because the pitch of a note on saxophone is flexible, when playing by ear, you'll be using just intonation to achieve that perfect harmony. Meanwhile the piano and to a certain extent the guitar will be bumbling along with dissonant equal temperament.

This makes it clear...........

Thank you @Colin the Bear.
You posted that video before I think and I thought it very interesting.

Is the lack of 'purity' for want of a better word, heard in those tempered notes an effect in stringed instruments, something to do with resonance? I recall that Eastern strings such as sitar have additional strings just for resonance/harmonics? Can of worms, I thought overtones were harmonic (sometimes!).

They still are quite often

Stop it @Pete Thomas 😉 I'm confused enough

 

[LostCircuits]

Stop it @Pete Thomas 😉 I'm confused enough

We haven't even started yet!

Here is the coup de grace:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZftrA-aCa4&t=259s

 

[Pete Thomas]

Stop it @Pete Thomas 😉 I'm confused enough

All I meant was that in addition to equal temperament, just and other terperaments are still used. Without a keyboard to regiments the temperament, many singers, string players, saxophones etc often drift into just intonation as it is more natural sounding. Ak me how I know.

 

[LostCircuits]

All I meant was that in addition to equal temperament, just and other terperaments are still used. Without a keyboard to regiments the temperament, many singers, string players, saxophones etc often drift into just intonation as it is more natural sounding. Ak me how I know.

Do you? Really?
Please tell!

 

[Pete Thomas]

Do you? Really?
Please tell!

Yes, I will attempt to refrain from name dropping, but I was doing a session that involved sustaining a G♭/F# note over a string section that was changing chords from Ab7 to D, a big epic movie soundtrack. However I could not hear the strings very well in the headphones. As they changed chord, my note suddenly became out of tune. Listening back without strings my sustained note was fine.I had to listen very carefully to the strings and then do a second take which was OK. Of course the strings were playing with just intonation, if they were taking out of the mix and the guide MIDI track was brought up, my sustained note was OK the first time around.

 

[cappers]

We haven't even started yet!

Here is the coup de grace:..........

Thank you @LostCircuits That was very helpful and fascinating.

"Melodic vocabulary", I like that. As a lifelong music lover and listener but recent starter to playing and music theory, I'm beginning to understand how and why music can be so emotive and how the placement of notes and accidentals - the vocabulary - is key (no pun!).

The oriental feel of the harmonic minor scale with the raised 7ths, and how the melodic minor with raised 6th & 7th on the way up and natural 6th & 7th on the way down, feels jolly ascending but melancholy descending.

Loving it

 

[Pete Effamy]

Yes, I will attempt to refrain from name dropping, but I was doing a session that involved sustaining a G♭/F# note over a string section that was changing chords from Ab7 to D, a big epic movie soundtrack. However I could not hear the strings very well in the headphones. As they changed chord, my note suddenly became out of tune. Listening back without strings my sustained note was fine.I had to listen very carefully to the strings and then do a second take which was OK. Of course the strings were playing with just intonation, if they were taking out of the mix and the guide MIDI track was brought up, my sustained note was OK the first time around.

Yes, this music malarkey is odd isn’t it. In this instance, I’d argue that their tuning (the strings) is incorrect as there is a held note, which shouldn’t change.
Problem is, did they record their tracks first?

 

[Pete Thomas]

Problem is, did they record their tracks first?

I can't remember. However everyone (again, without name dropping) agreed it was a case of just intonation and that the F# in the D chord sounded better when intonated differently to the G♭

 

[LostCircuits]

I can't remember. However everyone (again, without name dropping) agreed it was a case of just intonation and that the F# in the D chord sounded better when intonated differently to the G♭

They did not like the tension, bummer!