Saxophone beginners I can't count

[Jeanette]

Regarding tapping, it can be very annoying for the audience if you tap your foot. And in an ensemble often everyone will be tapping a little bit off the beat. So if you want to tap you might consider doing so with your big toe versus your whole foot..

I will try that thank you🙂

The audience can then concentrate on your lovely sound and musicality without be distracted by your tapping foot.

🙂))🙂))🙂)) still working on the lovely sound too.

Jx

 

[Justin Chune]

A friend of mine played with an army band and they were invited to do a concert for the BBC. The noise from the foot tapping was so bad they had to do the broadcast with their boots off.

Jim.

 

[jadoube]

A friend of mine played with an army band and they were invited to do a concert for the BBC. The noise from the foot tapping was so bad they had to do the broadcast with their boots off.

Jim.

My teacher may have been in that band 🙂 Or some a similar recording, an oft-repeated tale in his lessons.

If I tap my foot he stands on my toes.

 

[old git]

That is physical abuse.

Stamp on his foot and if he falls over, jump on his hand. Then ask him how he likes it.

 

[Nick Wyver]

That is physical abuse.

Stamp on his foot and if he falls over, jump on his hand. Then ask him how he likes it.

S'funny, that's just what I thought too. That would really **** me off.

 

[jadoube]

That is physical abuse.

Stamp on his foot and if he falls over, jump on his hand. Then ask him how he likes it.

🙂 It reminds me I'm sub consiously tapping my foot though.

(NB I did say stand not stamp and the old chap is generally in his slippers. The continual stressing of long notes & scales cause more pain.)

 

[Young Col]

I'm doing a lot of work on sight reading with my teacher. It's much more about counting and rhythm than about playing the right notes.

 

[Jeanette]

I'm doing a lot of work on sight reading with my teacher. It's much more about counting and rhythm than about playing the right notes.

Do you mind my asking have you done this from the start or did you get to grips with playing the notes and blowing the sax first?🙂

Jx

 

[Young Col]

Hi Jeanette
It's fairly recent. I've been playing about three and half years (after seriously returning to playing) and have had a really good teacher on technique for over two years. I've been playing in an ensemble and doing other things with playing but my teacher is suggesting that as a goal and as something to show if decide to start playing in more formal concert bands, I should work towards doing performance at Grade 5 ABRSM as a starting level. She got me to do Grade 5 theory last year. Although I do lots of reading stuff, the sight reading test at Grade 5 is quite demanding if you've not done that kind of thing before. So she has gone right back to basics with me, using the ABRSM Improve Your Sight Reading workbook for Grades 1-3. It's pretty basic at the start but very good for building up your technique of counting beats simply (eg 4 crotchets per bar in 4/4) and gradually overlaying rhythmic sequences to include dotted notes, slurs, ties and the like in 3/4 and 4/4. Then onto the Grade 4-5 workbook. It's a very structured process which is helping me a lot. Counting the beats out loud and then clapping the overlayed rhythms in exercises may sound simplistic, but it works and you gradually start to do it in your head while playing.
YC

 

[old git]

YC,
Most of us try to avoid the clap, after all how many Symphony players do you see clapping the beat? Have noticed that it does happen in pop concerts but I doubt if your teech will want to go there.

Should we return to the Concert Master days of beating time on the floor with a staff? Health and Safety might be concerned when it learns of the poor devil who hit his toe which turned sceptic and eventually succumbed to general blood poisoning.

 

[Tenor Viol]

I've been singing in choirs of one sort or another, and many workshops, for nearly 20 years (eek - where did the time go?). Most conductors / choral directors will tell you that they much prefer the WRONG note at the RIGHT time than the right note at the wrong time.

When you're new to this, you tend to hang on to a note you've missed and go 'oh what went wrong there...' by which time you're half a beat or more adrift! Biggest lesson I learnt was to throw away wrong notes - don't dwell on them - the rhythm and metre are much more important for the overall effect of the music than the odd fluffed note.

 

[jeremyjuicewah]

Absolutely! Teech says we can fix wrong notes, stick with it. Its just a bit disconcerting when about half the notes are wrong notes. Its all very well tapping perfect time but lets face it the sax is more musical than the foot. At least, in some people's hands it is.

 

[Jeanette]

I've been singing in choirs of one sort or another, and many workshops, for nearly 20 years (eek - where did the time go?). Most conductors / choral directors will tell you that they much prefer the WRONG note at the RIGHT time than the right note at the wrong time.

When you're new to this, you tend to hang on to a note you've missed and go 'oh what went wrong there...' by which time you're half a beat or more adrift! Biggest lesson I learnt was to throw away wrong notes - don't dwell on them - the rhythm and metre are much more important for the overall effect of the music than the odd fluffed note.

Exactly what my teach says too🙂

Hard to let the wrong ones go though.

Jx

 

[Moz]

and for an accountant that is not good🙁

I am really struggling playing and counting the notes. I can play with the metronome but as soon as I try and count in my head everything falls apart, I either play the wrong note, squeak, tongue when I shouldn't the list goes on.

I usually cope very well with multitasking

Am fine if it is all crotchets🙂

Please tell me this will come in time:crying:

Jx

I doubt this is going to help but...I have been playing for seven years and still have trouble, not so much with tied notes or quavers, but a mixture of quavers and semi-quavers has me floundering unless I learn the tune and then forget the music. I prefer to play by ear if I can as the notes come naturally then.

Martin

 

[kevgermany]

I can sympathise, I have the same problem. Clapping helps a lot to set the rhythm. Then.... you have to feel it. As you're playing. Bobbing may help, but it puts the audience and other musicians off. And everyone knows when you're wrong... As a kid I used to nod my head as I finished a piece of music. But my choirmaster put me right quickly by saying he always knew whether I finished on time or not by the head nod.....

 

[Rogerb]

Many of us become sceptics with the advancing years, OG 🙂))

I don't like foot-tapping (too much muscular co-ordination required!) but have a fairly good 'internal metronome' .....once I have heard a piece played at the correct rhythm! Playing a new, unknown piece, and in a band, where one isn't playing all the time, is much harder. On my one 'sit-in' at a band practice, I was lost within a few seconds 🙁
I wondered if one could have a small metronome which gives a visual indication of the beat ....would it be too distracting?

 

[Jeanette]

Many of us become sceptics with the advancing years, OG 🙂))

I wondered if one could have a small metronome which gives a visual indication of the beat ....would it be too distracting?

I have an electronic metronome with a visual aid on it which though I hated it at first I have got used to and do find it helps, I just feel that I need to learn to do it in my head. I think I tuned in to the visual as it is hard to listen to when playing. Also my tutor expects me to play without it!

Jx

 

[Jeanette]

UPDATE -

I can't believe it is over year since I typed this, for anyone reading and wondering how I went on, in a nutshell I decied to let the counting go for a while there just seemed far too much to take in. My tutor would record pieces we were working on and I got quite reasonable at playing along with the recording and keeping time, however put a piece in front of me to play on my own and the timing was no good. Since I joined a local orchestra my lack of counting skills and feel for rythmn really showed up, usually I get by if I am playing the same as someone else but quite easily get lost.

However I have decided to tackle this problem this year and to this end have started counting and or foot tapping/bobbing whatever depending on whether I am standing sitting. I am finding it easier to do than a year ago I guess the blowing, tonguing and finding the right notes is all coming that bit easier.

I'll let you know how I go on.🙂

Jx

 

[Tenor Viol]

Hi - playing with a group will certainly help because it will force you to keep pace. It might be worth borrowing some music (from a library if necessary - there is an inter-library music-lending service) and sit down with a recording and read the music whilst its playing. Even better, get he score for a bigger piece and focus on one instrument line and try to pick it out and follow it.

This will really improve your reading as you will have to keep pace. As a teenager, I had the miniature score for Tchaikovsky's Romeo and Juliet overture and had to follow it (I was doing O Level music at the time - I also had Handel's Water Music, Wagner's overture to Die Meistersinger etc). It's often easiest to start with the cello/bass line. This will tend to help lock you into the rhythm. Unless you play the leading line (usually violin/flute in an orchestra) orchestra) you don't have the tune anyway and it helps to avoid getting seduced by the tune.

You obviously could just go for a simple song with accompaniment.

The experience of reading and following a part will help when you play as you will find that your ability to 'track' the part will improve.

At first, you'll just keep pace with the music, but in time you'll find yourself picking out more detail and working out the harmony in your head etc.

Have fun.

 

[Jazzaferri]

Most northern Europeans and North Americans are brought up in a pretty rhythmically challenged environment. Our brains are culturally more attuned to melody.

i recommend Louis Belleson's Rhythmic exercise book. Dont play your instrument just sing whistle, moo (or any other noise you choose) your way through each exercise. 15 minutes a day starting at the beginning and dont move on to the next one until you have the one you are working on perfected. Set your metronme to 120 with strong beats on 1 and 3 weak beats on two and four. Each strong beat is quarter note (or other divison as set in time signature) and each weak beat is the and. So counting would be 1-&2-&3-&4-&. Etc.

if done diligently you will find major changes in a month or so. Work it through to the end and you will have basically mastered 4/4 and 3/4 rhythm.