Saxophone beginners I can't count

[Jazzaferri]

Tell that to Rimsky-Korsakov ;}

Well, as Sir Yehudi has played Bumblebee more than once and it was him that told me that.....he and Nikolai can argue that one ...I hopefully will wait for a while yet before that opportunity comes to me.

 

[Jazzaferri]

It's probably why I'm not a Charlie Parker fan - too many notes and nothing else

Contrast some of Coltrane's early stuff (which I love) with his sheets of sound of later years and the jazz school acolytes who seem to think that a burning solo consists of 3 or more choruses of 4-500 notes per minute playing...i have read feom several sources that Miles quite regularly told Trane to "take the horn out ofyour mouth man".

I admire the technical virtuosity that is required and perhaps it is just me being weak minded but I find in many cases the sheer number of notes overwhelms me after a while. I react the same way if someone talks at high speed for prolonged periods.....I just cant take it in after a little while and need to rest my soul.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Amen to that

 

[Profusia]

Well, as Sir Yehudi has played Bumblebee more than once and it was him that told me that.....he and Nikolai can argue that one ...I hopefully will wait for a while yet before that opportunity comes to me.

haha you ole name-dropper you ;} I wish I could move in such circles.

The point that rests are an important part of melody is well made. But it seems to me an over exaggeration to say that the music is in the rests, no doubt said to make the aforementioned point. Surely the music is in the whole. After all, the notes that delimit the rests must have a teeny weeny bit of significance too lol. But yes I'm being pedantic 🙂

 

[jazzdoh]

Contrast some of Coltrane's early stuff (which I love) with his sheets of sound of later years and the jazz school acolytes who seem to think that a burning solo consists of 3 or more choruses of 4-500 notes per minute playing...i have read feom several sources that Miles quite regularly told Trane to "take the horn out ofyour mouth man".

I admire the technical virtuosity that is required and perhaps it is just me being weak minded but I find in many cases the sheer number of notes overwhelms me after a while. I react the same way if someone talks at high speed for prolonged periods.....I just cant take it in after a little while and need to rest my soul.

This is the same for me,if there are too many notes and as Kev said nothing else then i stop listening as it is too much to take in,i like you admire the ability but don't enjoy the content,for me an improvisation as to communicate to the listener.

 

[Jazzaferri]

What I believe is meant by the music is between the notes is not that there are rests.....computers canplay rests with absolute precision....it is the shifts in timing whether on the beat pushing the beat or playing on the backside of the beat, or the subdivisions of it. Not rubato, but just delicious, tasteful shifts in rhythmic timing that bring the music to life.

in the program I use for writing, there are differing levels of this humanness that one can enter for playback that try and emulate this most human inflection. They make it sound a bit less mechanical, but dont come close to having the expression of a good player.

 

[sushidushi]

It's phrasing, I suppose. That's what I like about Clapton's guitar playing, Muddy Waters's singing, Sonny Boy Williams's harmonica...

 

[Jeanette]

I just found this thread to reference it elsewhere 🙂

I'm still working on counting, @Jazzaferri I bought the book you suggested but as often happens, I got distracted and didn't continue with it. I'm going to look at that again.

I know I have improved and sometimes now do feel a rhythm which I often didn't before, I am managing most of the time when I play in groups to not go too badly wrong all the time .

For me this seems a slow process but as much as anything probably because I don't give it enough attention or I get distracted by other things...

Jx

 

[Tenor Viol]

I just found this thread to reference it elsewhere 🙂

I'm still working on counting, @Jazzaferri I bought the book you suggested but as often happens, I got distracted and didn't continue with it. I'm going to look at that again.

I know I have improved and sometimes now do feel a rhythm which I often didn't before, I am managing most of the time when I play in groups to not go too badly wrong all the time .

For me this seems a slow process but as much as anything probably because I don't give it enough attention or I get distracted by other things...

Jx

As we've discussed amongst ourselves a few times, I think playing wih the right group on a regular (e.g. weekly) basis would really get things moving. I know the challenge is finding the right group and even then, the challenge may be when! When you're in a group that is in time, you will feel it much better. Also, the MD will pick up on things.

When I started singing in choirs, I used to have to tap my left index finger on the page. For singing, for straightforward stuff I don't overtly do anything, but fo rmore complex stuff, my big toe twitches...

Part of it is fluidity of reading music in time. If you cna do that, there is more brain left for other activities.

Might be worth developing some skills in reading and following a score - I used to pick out the cello line in scores when I was younger and follow them.

Try this

View: https://youtu.be/7-BfYeeoJ3U?t=42

and the cello part Dvorak_Czech_suite_Violoncello.pdf

Currently doing this on Thursday nights...

 

[Jeanette]

As we've discussed amongst ourselves a few times, I think playing wih the right group on a regular (e.g. weekly) basis would really get things moving. I know the challenge is finding the right group and even then, the challenge may be when! When you're in a group that is in time, you will feel it much better. Also, the MD will pick up on things.

Weekly Octet 🙂

Jx

 

[trimmy]

Weekly Octet 🙂

Jx

We wish !!

 

[jeremyjuicewah]

I'm still working on counting, @Jazzaferri I bought the book you suggested but as often happens, I got distracted and didn't continue with it. I'm going to look at that again.

A few years ago I went to Benslow Music for a weeks sax. Or a few days, I cant remember. I enjoyed it at the time but looking back there were some things I didnt really think were ok. My old teacher taught me to tap my foot, he was a jazz player, swing player and tapping your foot was what he wanted. When I merrily started tapping my foot at Benslow the place erupted. I thought that a bit snotty. Also, they mocked my white socks.

 

[Jeanette]

Sorry @jeremyjuicewah didn't mean to laugh, it was the white socks that did it.....🙂

Jx

 

[Sue]

@Jeanette if you are struggling to find a group to play with on a more regular basis I would recommend getting Smart Music. (Music Notation, Education, and Composition Software | MakeMusic, Inc.) I know @jbtsax is also a fan of this software There are all kinds of play along pieces and sight reading exercises at all levels from beginning to advanced. It's around $40 per year. Lots of different genres.

 

[BigMartin]

I know I have improved and sometimes now do feel a rhythm which I often didn't before, I am managing most of the time when I play in groups to not go too badly wrong all the time .

For me this seems a slow process but as much as anything probably because I don't give it enough attention or I get distracted by other things...

Re: distraction.

I haven't read the whole thread, but have you tried putting the instrument down and just clapping rhythms, preferably with a metronome? It's surprising how sloppy your rhythm can sound when that's all you're listening to, even when you think you know a phrase. Of course the point is not to get depressed about that but to work at it until it comes "naturally", starting slowly as always and speeding up omly when you're ready. Sounds tedious, but it's very satisfying when you get down to a tempo you can manage and start to feel the progress.

 

[MandyH]

I have always tapped my foot, but now I am trying to stop myself from doing it.
I still tap a toe inside the shoe, and I still count every beat's rest in my head and every long held note.

 

[Tiberius]

...My old teacher taught me to tap my foot, he was a jazz player, swing player and tapping your foot was what he wanted.

Slightly off topic perhaps, but this foot tapping business. Is it a 'jazz' thing? I've seen it suggested a few times but I've never felt like tapping my foot tbh. I did try once but just found it confusing. If I'm listening to music with a beat, then I tend to nod my head in time, which pretty obviously I can't do when playing sax.

One of the recent soundclip posts had a guy who sounded great, but he had this reeli funny habit of 'bobbing' up and down with the music, couldn't listen to the music coz I was smirking too much.

 

[Jeanette]

@Jeanette if you are struggling to find a group to play with on a more regular basis I would recommend getting Smart Music. (Music Notation, Education, and Composition Software | MakeMusic, Inc.) I know @jbtsax is also a fan of this software There are all kinds of play along pieces and sight reading exercises at all levels from beginning to advanced. It's around $40 per year. Lots of different genres.

You know I keep promising myself this and then forget, I think I will give it a go. Thanks for reminding me.

@BigMartin I'm really bad at clapping them I should do it more...

The positive in this is I know I'm getting better at it just need to keep ploughing on 🙂

Jx

 

[MandyH]

Slightly off topic perhaps, but this foot tapping business. Is it a 'jazz' thing? I've seen it suggested a few times but I've never felt like tapping my foot tbh. I did try once but just found it confusing. It I'm listening to music with a beat, then I tend to nod my head in time, which pretty obviously I can't do when playing sax.

One of the recent soundclip posts had a guy who sounded great, but he had this reeli funny habit of 'bobbing' up and down with the music, couldn't reeli listen to the music coz I was smirking too much.

Now, my teacher said that any quirks are OK until they start distracting the audience.
If your tapping / bobbing / swaying starts putting the audience off, then you need to reign in your movements a bit.

For this reason, I cannot stand to watch Shirley Bassey sing! She sounds great, but I can't bear the grimacing and gurning!

So my teacher says that standing stock still is not good to watch either, a little motion in sympathy to the music is good, violent body movements are no good.

 

[Tiberius]

..a little motion in sympathy to the music is good, violent body movements are no good.

Mick Jagger?