How to work out the chords for Tunes?

[visionari1]

I have built up a playing tunes repretiore, mainly Jazz standards, for busking and playing, solo in resteraunts etc.
Some I have the sheet music, without chords, and some with chords already worked out.
I have a list of the starting first few notes to get going, then I can play from memory. I would like to be able to also learn the chords, so I can improvise over these tunes and eventually jam with others. My goal is to learn one tune per week (tune and chords) without needing to follow the written page. Theory is not my strong point, the simpler the answer the better.
Any help greatly appreciated.

Cheers

visionari1

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[Linky Lee]

I'm not sure how mosty people tend to do this, as I've never actually spoken about it with other people.
If I'm trying to find a chord I always start with the route note.

Once you know the route note I think Major or Minor? for the basic triad, then is there another texture to the chord, is that a flat 7, a 9? I isolate the note in my head and find it on an instrument to make sure. Then I look at the inversion.

Play it on the piano. Does it sound right? Have I got something wrong, was it dimished not minor? etc.

Once you have a first chord, you can start making guesses at the others as it's easier to hear a II-V-I progression, than it is to work out each chord thinking, C. Move on to the next, ah an F. What's the next one? feels like the root chord, it's a Bb.

 

[visionari1]

Thanks Linky Lee, for that reply.

I guess it highlights my extreme lack of theory as I don't really understand how to work out the II-V-I .

So It's back to basics and bite the bullet and get into Theory.
I have been looking at ear training lately and that already feels like things are opening out in the mind and fingers seem to be flying nicely. Isn't their so much to learn, it's mindboggling, but fun all the way!

Cheers

visionari1

 

[danmays]

I tend to try and figure out the note centres say if a tune goes D-7 G7 to Cmaj7 then G-7 to C7 to Fmaj7 you've got two definate note centres there of C major and F major then all you have to do is fill in the gaps 😀)


Dan

 

[Simon]

... but that assumes you can hear this progression already. If you've done a bit on jazz theory then you'll know that the 2-5-1 thang is a regular... but its a bit different if you haven't read about this AND heard it used....

for me the main (only?) advantage of music theory is being able to learn from smarter players who've figured out shortcuts to common patterns which saves me coming up with a bunch of rules myself to explain what I'm hearing... ok?

if you check out Pete's site you'll find info about blues form and Rhythm Changes, 2-5-1s and 1-4-5s etc. this info is good to know because these features appear time and time again in all sorts of music. this is where i started (and stopped to a certain extent 🙁 ) and looking back it really takes alot of guesswork out of working out the harmony of tunes, plus it educates your ear.

working out basslines (as i mentioned earlier) is a good thing too, in fact one of the goals i give my students is to be able to play 12-bar blues basslines on sax through 12 keys (eventually). it's amazing how many tunes use the 1-4-5 and variations thereof.

the main thing is not to jump into music that's beyond your understanding and ear (go for blues, modal tunes, standards, r n r)

my 5p,
simon

DanMays wrote:
I tend to try and figure out the note centres say if a tune goes D-7 G7 to Cmaj7 then G-7 to C7 to Fmaj7 you've got two definate note centres there of C major and F major then all you have to do is fill in the gaps 😀)


Dan

 

[Bobby G]

There's also the relationships between chords, relative minors etc, speaking fairly simplistically, so for instance a 2-5-1 progression in C would be Dm7 G7 C ( with whatever extensions you can work out), and a 1-4-5 in C would be C F G - in this case the F and Dm relate to each other in that Dm is the relative minor to F, in that a Dm7 chord is basically F major with a D in the bass.

Chromatic chord progressions are fairly esy to spot, too, as you can feel the same chord either rising or falling by a semitone each time, e.g. Em Ebm Dm.

I used to be fairly proficient at working out chord progressions on guitar for rock/pop etc tunes, but I don't really know too much about common chord extensions in the jazzier tunes, I tend to feel my way around, and like Lee, when a note I can get by ear (even if it's an extension on the root chord, like a 9th, b5 etc) pops up I can then work out what kind of chord it might be. Simon's suggestion of following the bass is a good one, it's quite often fairly easy to predict what's likely to happen next in a lot of tunes. Perhaps my ear is more attuned to the bass anyway, as my main instrument for many years was the bass guitar.

Cheers, Bob

 

[visionari1]

Gidday Guys and thanks to Dan, Simon and Bob for the replies..

A couple of points immediatly come to mind, Bob's and Simon's point about about following the base...... well mostly I listen to the Sax and find it difficult to hear the chord changes, I get wrapped up in the sound. What do you do in the case of transcribing a tune straight from an MP3 file. I was getting the notes and rhythm, quite well with Art Peppers, Winter Moon and then thought, wonder what chords he's following, and how do I decide if its 2/5/1 or 1/4/6, or something else. That was what prompted this post!

I think the ear training and getting my ears up to hear this is the next level, been rather busy this week and have not touched the Sax for the week however I have been doing 10 minutes ear training each day and when I returned to scales and patterns, yesterday they seemed to be far easier than before (strange that)

That connection between the ears & fingers is the freedom zone for Sax improvisation. As Simon suggests, I'll get into Pete's blues and Rhythm pages on his site.

So much to do .....so little time, I need at least two more lifetimes to get it all in!
Spring is bouncing all over New Zealand at the moment, full of the joys of spring

Thanks for the advice.

cheers

Visionari1
🙂

 

[Pete Thomas]

The software Simon mentions is great - it makes a very good guess at telling you the chords.

 

[Simon]

Good to hear Spring has Sprung back home in NZ.
You wouldn't believe the summer here. No sunbloc was sold this year and London ran out of gumboots (which they call Wellies here). Grief.

Simon

visionari1 wrote:
Gidday Guys and thanks to Dan, Simon and Bob for the replies..

A couple of points immediatly come to mind, Bob's and Simon's point about about following the base...... well mostly I listen to the Sax and find it difficult to hear the chord changes, I get wrapped up in the sound. What do you do in the case of transcribing a tune straight from an MP3 file. I was getting the notes and rhythm, quite well with Art Peppers, Winter Moon and then thought, wonder what chords he's following, and how do I decide if its 2/5/1 or 1/4/6, or something else. That was what prompted this post!

I think the ear training and getting my ears up to hear this is the next level, been rather busy this week and have not touched the Sax for the week however I have been doing 10 minutes ear training each day and when I returned to scales and patterns, yesterday they seemed to be far easier than before (strange that)

That connection between the ears & fingers is the freedom zone for Sax improvisation. As Simon suggests, I'll get into Pete's blues and Rhythm pages on his site.

So much to do .....so little time, I need at least two more lifetimes to get it all in!
Spring is bouncing all over New Zealand at the moment, full of the joys of spring

Thanks for the advice.

cheers

Visionari1
🙂

 

[Simon]

Good to hear Spring has Sprung back home in NZ.
You wouldn't believe the summer here. No sunbloc was sold this year and London ran out of gumboots (which they call Wellies here). Grief.

Simon

visionari1 wrote:
Gidday Guys and thanks to Dan, Simon and Bob for the replies..

A couple of points immediatly come to mind, Bob's and Simon's point about about following the base...... well mostly I listen to the Sax and find it difficult to hear the chord changes, I get wrapped up in the sound. What do you do in the case of transcribing a tune straight from an MP3 file. I was getting the notes and rhythm, quite well with Art Peppers, Winter Moon and then thought, wonder what chords he's following, and how do I decide if its 2/5/1 or 1/4/6, or something else. That was what prompted this post!

I think the ear training and getting my ears up to hear this is the next level, been rather busy this week and have not touched the Sax for the week however I have been doing 10 minutes ear training each day and when I returned to scales and patterns, yesterday they seemed to be far easier than before (strange that)

That connection between the ears & fingers is the freedom zone for Sax improvisation. As Simon suggests, I'll get into Pete's blues and Rhythm pages on his site.

So much to do .....so little time, I need at least two more lifetimes to get it all in!
Spring is bouncing all over New Zealand at the moment, full of the joys of spring

Thanks for the advice.

cheers

Visionari1
🙂