Saxophone beginners How to become "pro" player?

[Jeanette]

You

I volunteer to review forum members' cooking skills and post full reviews 🙂
Old Git cannot apply, though.

You just want a free lunch and you know what they say about that

Apologies Drien, Sue is right we have rather hijacked your post. I'll stop it now.🙂


Jx

 

[old git]

I volunteer to review forum members' cooking skills and post full reviews 🙂
Old Git cannot apply, though.

I am so disappointed, My Strychnine and Cyanide Casserole was designed for Aldevis and Kev.

 

[aldevis]

I love how this thread about becoming a pro player has evolved into a debate about cooking and wives. One of the reasons this forum just keeps giving - for me anyway as I love distractions.

Not so off topic though; it touches few topics inextricably linked with the job:
- being a pro player and long term relationships (or lack of)
- being a pro player and needing to be fed at gigs
- being a pro player and starving.
- consuming food as a social experience in the British islands and in the Mediterranean area: a cultural shock.

You just want a free lunch and you know what they say about that

I think I am missing some British proverbs.
But this brought to mind something a (mediocre) teacher of mine used to say:
"you are to be professionals. Amateurs play for some pasta and beans and are happy, you play for money, so you can buy whatever food you prefer"

I am so disappointed, My Strychnine and Cyanide Casserole was designed for Aldevis and Kev.

With too much dill, like last time?

 

[kevgermany]

I am so disappointed, My Strychnine and Cyanide Casserole was designed for Aldevis and Kev.

Nice to know I have a function in life.

 

[Targa]

I think I am missing some British proverbs.

Such as - 'The way to a man's heart is through his stomach'?

Which is why there are so many obese men and then merry widows.

 

[Tenor Viol]

My observations from what I've encountered - mostly the classical world, but I think the rest of the music industry is similar

• Making a living from only being a musician except for the lucky few is difficult, but not impossible, but very dependent on where you happen to be
  
• Most supplement their income by teaching, or by having an alternative 'day job', especially as most gigs are at weekends
  
• One or two lucky people I know have managed to retire by mid 50s and become full-time musicians, as they don't need to worry overly much about the bills

For reference, I am advised by the survivors visitors that I am a good cook (I can even make pasta from scratch if needed). A stalwart is an Italian beef casserole in red wine with celery. I'm good at puddings too - sticky toffee puddings and chocolate truffle torte seem to be popular with victims guests.

 

[drien]

Right,
Thanks all for constructive feedback. It looks like it is tougher then I thought.
It looks I have two options:

1. Keep the job, keep going with practising and get "pro" once retired from daily job

2. Become one of the best => that should bring enough work for bills.

no.2 is currently not an option as I don't think I could make it with my 1,5 hours a day of practice.

Conclusion: Need to find more time for practising to make no 2 viable option. I'll have to adjust my life style and find some more hours during the week.

 

[kevgermany]

I think that music requires you to be a businessman first. Get skilled, build a plan... Work at it and review. What do you want to play - jazz, rock, or possibly weddings, cruise ships. Join or set up a band. Get gigs and so on.

 

[aldevis]

Right,
Thanks all for constructive feedback. It looks like it is tougher then I thought.
It looks I have two options:

1. Keep the job, keep going with practising and get "pro" once retired from daily job

2. Become one of the best => that should bring enough work for bills.

no.2 is currently not an option as I don't think I could make it with my 1,5 hours a day of practice.

Conclusion: Need to find more time for practising to make no 2 viable option. I'll have to adjust my life style and find some more hours during the week.

You actually have a third option:
3- Keep the job increasing all the opportunity of making music professionally (practice+gigs) until you will reach a point when you feel like dropping the job.
It can be tiring, but quite motivating. When I went part time, it dramatically sped up the process.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Busk. Simples.

 

[saxnik]

I dropped my day job in 2006 in order to move in with my (now) wife who happens to be a good cook too, as well as the primary breadwinner. I'd had a steady job in IT which had few prospects since a) I wasn't very good at it and b) I kept turning down more responsibility because I wanted to keep playing gigs rather than doing tech support.

I was able to pick up enough gig work through friends in the industry to get started, and then managed over the next few years to get to 3.5 days in schools doing peri teaching too. All of this brought me pretty much to the amount I'd been earning in the office (on paper at least, though the bank manager thought differently when it came to mortgage applications). Sadly now though, gigs are fewer and further between, fuel prices have increased significantly, and our moving south to further my wife's prospects has killed off my school income and local pickup gigs. I reckon it takes five years to get to earning a 'living', so I think Aldevis' part-time plan is the best!

Good luck, and if you need a dep...?

Nick

 

[jrintaha]

I have (or rather had - she's just been made redundant) a wife to support me.

Wow, I didn't know they even made 'em like that. For me, support means she doesn't immediately start complaining, but lets me practice for at least 15 minutes before giving the "you never spend any time with me and/or the kids" speech.

 

[photoman]

I'm not a sax teacher or pro (I'm barely a sax player) but I am a self employed professional photographer and photography teacher and many of the same principles apply.

For Teaching:

1. Get to be very good at what you do.

2. Do it for a long time if you want others to take you seriously.
I spent over 20 years doing my "other" job (a 3 day 12 hour shift system) while working as a newspaper and magazine photographer on my (2 or 3) days off each week, before going full time 10 years ago.

3.You need to be able to demonstrate, perfectly, every technique that you explain.

4. You should never be stuck for an answer to a question and students much prefer answers that begin with..."what I found when I had that problem was..." to "I read about that and the author said..."

For Practice (Getting and Keeping Work):

1. See 1, above.

 

[Targa]

Wow, I didn't know they even made 'em like that. For me, support means she doesn't immediately start complaining, but lets me practice for at least 15 minutes before giving the "you never spend any time with me and/or the kids" speech.

Lack of female logic again.
You will just have to gently explain to her that if you did not spend any time with her she would not have any kids.

(Nobody please disillusion him).

 

[drien]

Hey all,
this thread is getting some very constructive feedback.
I don't think I am going to drop my daily job in next 10 years as there are currently 2 little toddlers (+ one in the future) in our house so I need the income.

You actually have a third option:
3- Keep the job increasing all the opportunity of making music professionally (practice+gigs) until you will reach a point when you feel like dropping the job.It can be tiring, but quite motivating.
When I went part time, it dramatically sped up the process.

That was along the lines I was thinking, except I can't do part time.I have to do everything in very safe manner so I can drop my job only when I feel all the opportunities are there ready for me. At the moment playing sax is form of relaxation for me anyways so I don't mind playing in the carpark during lunch break or once kids are in bed. I just wish I had more time for practice.

I think that music requires you to be a businessman first. Get skilled, build a plan... Work at it and review. What do you want to play - jazz, rock, or possibly weddings, cruise ships. Join or set up a band. Get gigs and so on.

This is a very good point! Planning in my IT career helped to speed the carrer development at least by half.
I thinks I have about 10 years to build my skills up, get some gigs under my belt + get as much contacts from the bussiness as possible as I don't want to rush anything when kids are small.
Will put some thoughts into it🙂
Thanks all, it is nice to see all the different takes on the theme!

 

[photoman]

That was along the lines I was thinking, except I can't do part time. I have to do everything in very safe manner so I can drop my job only when I feel all the opportunities are there ready for me.

When thinking about quitting the day job to follow a dream, going part time first is about the safest way it can be done in my view. I can see that others posts here have also recommended that strategy.

"Part time" can be anything from a few hours a month to half the week working at the new career. This can then lead to a smooth transition along the new path, as your reputation builds up and the demand to avail of the new services exceeds the time available to offer them, without giving up the day job.

This helps prevent the sudden shock of going from being able to pay the bills to always being out of the house when the baliffs call, too. It also makes it easier for others who depend on your income to see that you are less likely to not be able to provide it.

One point to add from my previous post: If you are serious about teaching, then a good teaching qualification helps. There are a number of evening classes around in adult education skills (Diplomas right up to Master's degrees - I have both). This can encourage one-to-one clients, and stands you in good stead for teaching in colleges and other FE centres (perhaps running your own night school classes). This can guarentee some regular income certainly in the winter months, and also helps to spread your name as a practitioner and a teacher generally.

 

[Saxdiva]

If drien is short of time, the adult education skills may be difficult as it will cut down his practising further. If he isn't as skilled a player as a result, that will reduce his opportunities to earn both as a player and teacher.

No easy answer unfortunately, there's always a trade off. Getting to gigs and open mic sessions and talking to musicians there, and playing at them yourself, might help you build a network to increase your chances of being asked to play. Do you have friends whose parties/weddings you could do a set at? You may get someone asking you there to do something at their event.

Once you have made a start it will be easier to think about reducing the hours in your day job.

 

[photoman]

If drien is short of time, the adult education skills may be difficult as it will cut down his practising further. If he isn't as skilled a player as a result, that will reduce his opportunities to earn both as a player and teacher.

I think I may have misread the origianl message, and assumed that drien is a more experienced player. I would agree that it may be too soon to think about both teaching and playing professionally at this stage.

My advice, though, still stands for anyone considering teaching a skill to adults. The competition is so strong for any professional service that every extra thing you can do to put yourself higher up the ladder is worth doing (even if it means working weekends).

This may be less true for saxophone playing, though. The myth that just buying a good camera is enough to make you a good photographer, is not quite matched when it comes to playing most musical instruments, and definitely not the sax (if the buyer has any sense).

 

[drien]

I think I may have misread the origianl message, and assumed that drien is a more experienced player. I would agree that it may be too soon to think about both teaching and playing professionally at this stage.

And I think the oposit. People have to set their goals. If I was wise enough when I was 10 and somebody told me that I could be proffessional player and travel the world I would say ok, lets start with some hard work. As nobody told me that, I automatically presumed that the best case scenario will be teaching young kids playing the instrument + playing in local symphonic orchestra. I choose IT career instead.
I love playing sax as no other instrument. To become great you have to love what you are doing. If there was one think in my life which I could become great in it would have to be the saxophone. So be it!
How could I become great when I soot for average? Maybe I'll be average and that will be my best what I can do, but I'll give it my best shot and go for the top😉

 

[photoman]

And I think the oposit. People have to set their goals. If I was wise enough when I was 10 and somebody told me that I could be proffessional player and travel the world I would say ok, lets start with some hard work.😉

My best advice remains to think as broadly as possible to equip yourself for will be a tough and often precarious life. That includes qualifying yourself as a teacher, which also involves training as a teacher. Those skills can (and often need to) be taught - for you to stand out from the crowd. And trust me it's a BIG crowd!

I also feel that I left things later than I could have, before going it alone in what I consider to be a career that chose me (rather than the other way around), but one which I didn't avail of fully, sooner, for fear that "a proper job" was needed to pay the rent and look after my family.

But I'm doing it now - and sometimes it's really tough, and I still wake up at time thinking "what if the work goes away?" And I'm about as "set up" as you can be as self employed teacher/practitioner. Hence my view that it's important to get as many strings on your bow as possible - or keys to your sax.

By all means set goals - no matter how long term, and work towards them all the time. My concern though is that what you might have at the moment is a more fanciful rather than realistic view of life on the other side of the fence.