Reeds How to adjust reeds

[Pete Effamy]

Why so many pages of argument? Many words on “reed doctoring” have been written and it has been going on for as many years as donkeys can merely dream about.
People that do sand / shave / scrape reeds make something that is anything from completely unplayable to playable, or maybe just a little stuffy to responsive.
I think that people that don’t just can’t be arsed. I have in the past, but largely now I can’t be arsed.
Until I was asked to play a concert on soprano sax with a choir, and record some modern classical chamber music on clarinet. It’s a must really.
Yes, moving the reed very slightly up or down on the mouthpiece can be a revelation but it can also alter the responsiveness too, and won’t fix an inherently dull / hard reed.
As for degrading - I’ve never heard a degradation in sound from any reed that I’ve doctored (and not messed up - yes, you can thoroughly mess them up occasionally).
Double reed players make their own - we all know that. They scrape / file / sand them in order to hone a reed to what they want. No difference.

 

[Grumps]

I am not a scientist, and while I had a job as software engineer for many years I am not officially one of those either. And I sand my reeds. If that is degrading them, I am unaware of it.

I think folks are simply overreacting to a simple description using the word "degrade". Remember, this one began with sanding down a reed to make it softer. I only offered the fact in how reeds are numerically graded. But to soften a reed by sanding it down... and not think it's being degraded at all? Or what, not noticeable? Or, my reeds aren't degraded and I have science with me. How dare you!

See? These are the silly things folks bicker about on discussion boards. I'm actually a bit shocked that it would invoke rebukes. It's just a fact. You sand down a reed to make it softer, you're necessarily degrading it. How much? Who cares. When I sand reeds to make them playable, perhaps I'm doing it all wrong when they end up playing for me, but don't last as long. That's my experience and nothing anyone writes in its regard is going to convince me otherwise. You be you. I'll be me. But we can all agree, I would hope, that it's probably not a good thing to shave or sand down reeds to make a 4 a 2, or whatever. But hey, if that's what you do, then by all means. Go for it.

 

[Pete Thomas]

But to soften a reed by sanding it down... and not think it's being degraded at all?

I've done this a lot and never considered that the reed was degrading by doing so.

It's just a fact. You sand down a reed to make it softer, you're necessarily degrading it.

I've never heard of it being a fact, do you have a source evidence for that? (I presume by degrade you mean it won't last as long)

I would hope, that it's probably not a good thing to shave or sand down reeds to make a 4 a 2,

I agree with that but probably not a typical example. I generally like to use 2 or 2.5. The only time I might sand (or, in my case, scrape) to make softer might be if a 2.25 arrived and it was too hard. It may have been an error at the grading process who knows, but I would want to soften that reed, probably only a tiny bit.

 

[turf3]

Let's say you've got a box of #3 reeds. Now we know they're all cut to the same thickness, and yet they don't all respond the same. If you take one that's really about as stiff as a 3.5, and then you scrape it down to be like all the other 3s, what have you done? You've taken a reed made from stiffer raw material, and you've made it thinner. I would certainly agree that your hypothetical 3.5ish reed that you've made thinner probably won't last as long as a reed out of the 3.5 box. No way to know if "not as long" means 50%, 5%, or 0.5% reduction in playing life.

But I don't think there's any grounds for saying that the stiffest reed in the box of 3s, the one whose raw material is SO stiff that it's really more like a 3.5, and that you make thinner so it's got the same stiffness as the rest of the 3s, will last less time than the rest of the 3s in the box that you don't adjust. You've got a slightly thinner reed made of harder material, vs. a box of slightly thicker reeds made of softer material. Which will last longer? no one can tell.

Of course if you can't get that extra stiff #3 that's really more like a 3.5 to give you anything below D without straining, then it'll for sure last longer thinned down than if you snap it between your fingers and toss it in the trash can, won't it? If I get 20 hours playing time out of a reed that costs $7 (bari reeds are more than that these days, I think), that's a heck of a lot better than getting 5 minutes out of that $7 reed and throwing it away. Do I really care if it's not as good as getting 30 hours of playing time?

Besides, it's not just about the total overall strength of the reed. It's about side to side balance; it's about high notes vs. low notes; it's about taking a slightly dull sounding one and giving it a little sparkle by thinning the tip a wee bit. And it's about making the back flat when (not IF) it warps convex, rather than playing it a little while and then throwing it away when the warpage ruins its response.

 

[Grumps]

I've never heard of it being a fact, do you have a source evidence for that? (I presume by degrade you mean it won't last as long)

In this instance, "degrade" means to sand or shave stuff off. That's all. Do you truly need a study for that? Remember, a brand is all the same general thickness to begin with, right? If taking material off isn't degrading it somehow, then we speak two different languages. However, I did mention when I'm doing the degrading, they don't last as long, but I still do it. Your experiences may differ. However, I didn't put down the process in and of itself, and even distinguished from the get go:

Not to say you can't adjust them, if you're adapt at it. Just dispelling the notion that reeds are numbered by thickness.

I've been defamed over this Pete. Which is silly. So I'm done with this one and will ignore the offending member forthwith. But geeze-louise you guys drive things into the ground here. Over nothing. I think I'll stick to watches...

 

[PiccoloPirate]

Bad choice of words, if this is your definition of, Degrade.
Degrade: to lower to an inferior or less effective level.
Working a reed, when necessary, makes it all it can be. 🎶🏴‍☠️🎶

 

[mizmar]

It's true that to the scientist or engineer "degrade" would probably be taken to mean something like: to lose structural integrity.

 

[PiccoloPirate]

Never used or heard, what "grade" reed is this?
It was always, what strength reed is this, or what number?
With some brands, S MS M MH H.

 

[turf3]

I don't consider a sarcastic response to engineer-hate to be "defamation". Had best just leave it there .

 

[mizmar]

I don't consider a sarcastic response to engineer-hate to be "defamation". Had best just leave it there .

Or, in parallel with degrade (apparently); defamed means just to be made less famous?

 

[Pete Thomas]

I've been defamed over this Pete. Which is silly.

Well it just seems to be a misunderstanding over use of the word degrade.

But geeze-louise you guys drive things into the ground here. Over nothing.

in my case it’s just curiosity - and I now realise based on a different understanding of the definition of said word.

If taking material off isn't degrading it somehow, then we speak two different languages.

Exactly. I think of it as meaning to make inferior. So either a different language or my mistake and I’m equally open to either.

 

[Woodpad]

In Dutch I would use the word verspanen for reed correction, simular to the German zerspanen. This seems to translate to machining in English.

 

[mizmar]

In Dutch I would use the word verspanen for reed correction, simular to the German zerspanen. This seems to translate to machining in English.

Really, in English, it ought to be fettle.

Originating from Middle English fetlen (to make ready) and Old English fetel (belt), the word implies bringing something into proper order.

"I fettled with my reed, now it is in fine fettle"

 

[Pete Thomas]

"I fettled with my reed, now it is in fine fettle"

Just be careful not to unfettle it.

 

[mizmar]

Just be careful not to unfettle it.

As opposed to defettle - not De'Fettle, one of the great Bavarian households

 

[Targa]

Fettle - 100% natural wholefood supplement for cats and dogs.
And whilst on the meanings of words starting ‘de-…..’; please let’s have no confusion about
Details and detailed.

 

[mizmar]

Or Demeter; is a fertility goddess, not the act of making things shorter.

 

[AlonW]

My second modified reed was okay until I sanded it too much and I also took down the heart a bit which made it sound thin. I decided to get a new box but a strength softer, which for me is 1.5. The only reed prep I did this time was pressing the fibers down with my fingernail, not touching the tip, while on the glass surface. The new reeds sounded different, brighter for sure, with an edge that I liked, and overall tone production was very good without intonation suffering. So for now I'm not needing to sand my reeds. (I don't know how long the 1.5 reeds will last and sound good, I only played a single reed for a few hours, but this is the direction I want to go in.)

 

[Grumps]

The only reed prep I did this time was pressing the fibers down with my fingernail, not touching the tip, while on the glass surface

Here's a trick if you don't know it. After you get the new reed damp and on the mouthpiece, press your thumb down starting from the middle of the reed where it meets the heel and press evenly as you slide your thumb over the vamp to the tip of the reed. Sometimes a new reed may feel a bit stuffy, but will open up after you do this a couple times.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Here's a trick if you don't know it. After you get the new reed damp and on the mouthpiece, press your thumb down starting from the middle of the reed where it meets the heel and press evenly as you slide your thumb over the vamp to the tip of the reed. Sometimes a new reed may feel a bit stuffy, but will open up after you do this a couple times.

Known by me as “burnishing”