Beginner impro G7/A and A7/C#

[cappers]

In the context of A7 AC#EG it's a minor third - 3 semitones

In fact it’s a major 3rd in A7, 4 semitones.

Confused now

A7 AC#EG - C# 1 D 2 D# 3 E

Surely a major 3rd / 4 semitones is C# to F ? - C# 1 D 2 D# 3 E 4 F

 

[PiccoloPirate]

A-A# 1/2 step
A#-B 1/2 step
B-C 1/2 step
C-C# 1/2 step

While A is considered the major 2nd of G, and the 9th as well, it can be voiced almost anywhere, your ears find it musically satisfying.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Confused now

A7 AC#EG - C# 1 D 2 D# 3 E

Surely a major 3rd / 4 semitones is C# to F ? - C# 1 D 2 D# 3 E 4 F

Just to be clear:

C# is the major 3rd of A
E# is the major 3rd of C#
C# to F is a diminished 4th

 

[skeller047]

Everybody is just hemming and hawing around the real thing here. For a saxophone player, reading a lead sheet, slash chords can mostly be ignored.

What G7/A MEANS is “Play a G7 chord, but put an A in the bass”. For a melody instrument, or a treble chord instrument, the “/A” part is irrelevant.

What the arranger did here was create a chord sheet for everybody, then transpose it for Bb and Eb (presumably) instruments. While the slash chords may be of interest to the bass player and the pianist, they make no difference to the sax player taking a solo.

The one exception to this is in a section of a tune where there is a pedal point. A series of chords over a single bass tone. Example: Gm7/D -> Am7/D -> Bbm7/G -> Am7/D. Or something like that. It’s good to take note of the pedal tone, and find notes to play that emphasize or complement the pedal point. But that’s not the case here.

@cappers - if you are interested in chord voicings, for these kinds of chords, it’s a good idea to leave at least a fifth between the bass note and the bottom note of the chord over it. But otherwise, just voice the chord how you would without regard to the bass note.

 

[cappers]

Right, got it.
Don't want to overcomplicate things, ignore the slash will do for now.
Thanks all

 

[cappers]

Just when you think it's safe to go into the water......

A-A# 1/2 step
A#-B 1/2 step
B-C 1/2 step
C-C# 1/2 step

While A is considered the major 2nd of G, and the 9th as well, it can be voiced almost anywhere, your ears find it musically satisfying.

I'm still missing something here. I see the 1/2 steps (semitones) as above.

You asked originally

Is C# a major 3rd or minor 3rd?

C#-D 1/2 step
D-D# 1/2 step
D#-E 1/2 step

I thought we were referring to the A7 chord AC#EG, so by my thinking C#-E is three 1/2 steps so a minor 3rd. Yet @Pete says it four semitones?

I apologise for my stupidity but i don't get it. Even Petes further explanation didn't help, sorry.

 

[PiccoloPirate]

Read posts 3,12,17 and 18 out loud.
Hope it helps.

 

[wakyct]

I thought we were referring to the A7 chord AC#EG, so by my thinking C#-E is three 1/2 steps so a minor 3rd. Yet @Pete says it four semitones?

Pete was saying C# is a major third from the root. A - C# - E is a major triad, hence it's built as a major third + a minor third, the opposite of minor triads.

 

[lydian]

Here's a fun fact. Start with any fully diminished 7th chord, lower any note a half step, and you've got yourself a dominant 7th chord, and the note you lowered is the root.

 

[Tenor Viol]

As Colin said, the '/' (slash) indicates to whomever is playing the accompaniment/bass to NOT play the chord in root position but in some sort of inversion with one of the other chord notes in the bass (if it's the third, it's 'first inversion', the fifth is 'second inversion' and the seventh 'third inversion'). In Roman numeral chord notation, subscript letters are used to indicate this 'a' being root position (usually omitted), 'b' is first inversion etc. So V7b would be a 7th chord built on the 5th of the scale in first inversion.

How you arrange the notes of the chord, is known as voicing as mentioned earlier in the thread...

 

[cappers]

Pete was saying C# is a major third from the root. A - C# - E is a major triad, hence it's built as a major third + a minor third, the opposite of minor triads.

@wakyct Thank you, now I understand (I hope ).

I was confusing the type of triad (maj/min/dim) for the interval between C# and E.
i.e. AC#E is major triad, interval between A and C# is 4 semitones (major) but the distance between C# and E is still 3 semitones (minor) ?

No matter, the main question about what to do with slash chords has been answered. Must gen up on correct terminology to avoid further confusion.

Thanks all.

 

[JSL]

It's done because the melody is ascending and the intention is for the rhythm section to play the same ascending line, a couple octaves below. Extremely common.

Thanks, turf. Makes sense. And, on the piano, I just tried putting the 9 in the bass and it sounded fine. Actually, sounds good no matter how you voice it. Playing a line on sax over a IIm V7 I, I tend to use the b9 on the V7 chord, but that's a different matter. And as @skeller047 pointed out, as horn players we don't have to worry about those slash chords (aside from the pedal point example he gave).

 

[PiccoloPirate]

That's the greatness of piano/keys/melodica.
Up front in black and white.
Vibes are kool for fours.
So, is it the 9th in the bass,
or the 2nd? 😜

 

[JSL]

So, is it the 9th in the bass,
or the 2nd? 😜

I'd still call it the 9th, given that we are speaking of a chord.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I'd still call it the 9th, given that we are speaking of a chord.

Yes it’s a 9th, I’ve never heard it called a 2nd.

 

[cappers]

Here's a fun fact. Start with any fully diminished 7th chord, lower any note a half step, and you've got yourself a dominant 7th chord, and the note you lowered is the root.

That didn't make sense at first but after some pencil and paper workings I see that and it is beautiful, sequential, almost mathematical.

Now if I've got it wrong and made another fool of myself so be it, but as I see it, using C dim as an example:

Cº = C Eb Gb Bbb

lower root by s/t = B Eb Gb A = B7 EDIT properly B7 = B D# F# A
lower 3rd D F# A C = D7
lower 5th F A C Eb = F7
lower 7th Ab C Eb Gb = A7

Cheers. Ready for the flak!

EDIT Something wrong as A7 is A C# E G !

Forgot to continue up the scale from A - A B C# D E F# G# - 1 3 5 b7 - A C# E G (instead went back to the start of the chord)

Thanks.

 

[Pete Thomas]

lower root by s/t = B Eb Gb A = B7

Almost. B7 has D# and F#. It is simpler to use the harmonically correct names for notes.

 

[PiccoloPirate]

What are the notes for an A7 chord?
Asking the OP.

The 9th or 2nd,
was just food for thought. 😜 😜
This is a beginners forum.

What's the difference between a "riff" and a "lick"?
Need a good definition to post on the music section, of a forum, where it's mostly Military and Law Enforcement members.
Humorous definitions are most welcome.
Thx,
PP

Found this in a closet full of books.

 

[cappers]

What are the notes for an A7 chord?
Asking the OP.

The 9th or 2nd,
was just food for thought. 😜 😜
This is a beginners forum.

As the OP, A7 = A C# E G. Yes I know I messed up the 7th.

I went back to the beginning of the chord rather than continuing up the A scale - A B C# D E F# G# - 1 3 5 b7 - A C# E G.

9th or 2nd ...B or B octave lower.

Thank you for your patience.

 

[JSL]

1 3 5 b7 - A C# E G.

9th or 2nd ...B or B octave lower.

Just for any relative beginners who might be interested, here's the full A7 chord with extensions:

A C# E G B D F# (1 3 5 b7 9 11 13)

Those three extensions (9, 11, 13) can be, and often are, altered (b9, #9, #11, b13). Note that the #9 & #11 are the same as a b3 & b5, although as chord tones they are technically the extensions #9 & #11, because the unaltered 3 & 5 can still be present in the chord.