Scam/Fake? Fake Yamaha YAS-62?

[Zaytron]

@Zaytron - Did you end up getting your money back? Did the seller provide a return shipping label for you?

Hello Micah008, sorry that you are experiencing this issue as well. The seller provided a return shipping label and Im waiting for the refund now.

About the saxophone, do it look like the pictures? The pictures on the link look like promotional material so wondering if what you received is like that or completely opposite. In my case, there were multiples red flags on my initial inspection so I took it to a Professional Shop and also reached out to Yamaha US.

The Ebay process is slow, they force you to “fix” the issue with the seller before they step in. Notify the seller that you will not accept the item or any discounts, and gather as much evidence to prove its a counterfeit item so that it facilitate the process once eBay step in. You can add some pictures here and we can help identifying some of the common red flags.

 

[greenstripe]

Sorry for anyone that has fallen foul of this. A future warning to anybody potentially shopping for a new saxophone or any other purchase for that matter. Red flags for me are seller located in China and writing on advert photos in Chinese which is easily verified using Google Lens to translate or similar.

Additionally multiple sellers using duplicate images

Original Image

Google Lens Translated

 

[Pete Thomas]

first. I also going to call Yamaha

Very good idea but also their analysis of the font as shown in post 25 seems useful if it is the same counterfeiter:

Based on the photos you sent, this saxophone does not look to be an authentic Yamaha. The big indication is the logo on the bell. The font is wrong and the "v" in the middle of the "M" comes down to the bottom of the letter and on an authentic Yamaha, it would stop short.

 

[Micah008]

Here is a list of what I considered red flags, with some pictures. I really appreciate the help.

- The box was a generic box, no Yamaha logo, part numbers or serial numbers, unlike the box picture in the listing. (Before buying I asked the seller specifically if it was new in the factory sealed box, and they said yes)
- The packing of the box was basic bubble wrap and other packing materials, not like the picture in the listing.
- There were bright red jewels that did not look like anything I had seen in pictures before.
- The Yamaha logo 'M' does not look right (thanks to that tip from this thread).
- One of the pearls on the keys does not feel the same as others, and there is actually an extra one loose in the bag that looks like it came unglued.
- There is no knurling around the rings that connect the parts.
- Some of the other parts that were included (reeds, cushions etc) are all Chinese made.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Does the bell brace look wrong too?
More pictures of the complete thing would help.
There are some very good pictures of a genuine 62 on Thomann for comparison.

Yamaha YAS-62 04 Alto Sax

Alto Saxophone New 62 series neck, Improved low B/C# connection, New engraving, Gold lacquer finish, 4C mouthpiece and case included

www.thomann.de

 

[Micah008]

I am taking into our local Yamaha dealer to have them look it over. They have 2 new YAS-62s for sale currently so we can compare side by side too.

So far, talking to an actual person at Ebay has been impossible, they insist you use the online process first and only call them in for help later. It looks like I will need to wait the 3 days first and then ask them to step in.

Here are a few more pictures:

 

[Micah008]

Update: I called and talked to someone at Yamaha... the serial number is not in their system so they also believe it is counterfeit. They will be providing this information via email so I can also use as proof with Ebay if needed.

 

[Pete Thomas]

So far, talking to an actual person at Ebay has been impossible, they insist you use the online process first and only call them in for help later. It looks like I will need to wait the 3 days first and then ask them to step in.

I found it is getting harder to speak to someone.

I wonder if it worth speaking the FBI. Get the evidence from the Yamaha dealer and contact law enforcement. There may be nothing they can if the seller's are outside the USA, but they should take this seriously - I wonder if they may put pressure on eBay as these are being imported into the US.

This seems to be escalating in that the counterfeits seem to be getting better and they are selling at almost retail prices, hence the old "you should have known if it is too good to be true" no longer applies.

 

[Micah008]

I found it is getting harder to speak to someone.

I wonder if it worth speaking the FBI. Get the evidence from the Yamaha dealer and contact law enforcement. There may be nothing they can if the seller's are outside the USA, but they should take this seriously - I wonder if they may put pressure on eBay as these are being imported into the US.

This seems to be escalating in that the counterfeits seem to be getting better and they are selling at almost retail prices, hence the old "you should have known if it is too good to be true" no longer applies.

I have also provided more information to Yamaha since they wanted to know the Ebay links I had found. They also said the serial number isn't even technically in the right format either, so that is for sure a giveaway.

I am still feeling dumb for falling for it, since the deal was a little too good to be true... I knew there was a chance even before ordering, but I also knew I had the ability to return, and had Ebay and my credit card company to back me up if something happened... so I took the risk, its just a pain to get through it.

Now I am very reluctant on what to even get for my son. I want him to have a nice instrument, but he is only 14 and possible to only play through high school. I am sick of paying for a rental that is not the best condition... but also can't afford many of the prices I am seeing for new ones. I may just have to suck it up and buy something in the Intermediate level from my local store that I at least know I can trust. (They have a YAS-300 in stock)

 

[Colin the Bear]

The Thomann AS 580 is a good starter imo.
Although a used Yamaha has more kudos and will hold its price and may even appreciate.

 

[jazzdoh]

I may just have to suck it up and buy something in the Intermediate level from my local store that I at least know I can trust. (They have a YAS-300 in stock)

Sorry you are going through this.
Unfortunately this is the way it is at the moment, if you are not experienced enough to tell from the photos then buying from a reputable store is the best way to go.
Some of the lower priced Yamaha's are still very good horns and will last your son years and years.
Good luck in your future sax purchases.

 

[jonf]

As the seller is in Beijing, the likelihood of US law enforcement doing anything is slight. I think the stand-out lesson from these sales is that a seller on US eBay, selling 'Japanese' saxophones from Beijing, for $2,000 less than an authorised dealer, is extremely unlikely to be selling legitimate instruments. The title of this forum is well named as 'caveat emptor'.

It is possible to get good deals from eBay and other market places, but there are lots of crooks out there. If you're new to the world of the saxophone, my advice would be to stick with authorised dealers. At least with eBay you stand a reasonable chance of getting your money back - you may need to be persistent, but you should get there in the end.

 

[Pete Thomas]

but he is only 14 and possible to only play through high school.

OK this is important info. If he isn't yet committed to the saxophone (at his age other priorities are about to loom if you know what I mean), the dealer Kessler comes up all the time as a good bet for a new student horn. But there are also reputable used dealers such as 2ndending.com which may mean a much better instrument for the money. Used is usually better value and for the price of that fake Yamaha you'd get a great and resellable top of the line vintage classic.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Don't beat yourself up for buying a fake. I've been caught out. It all seems so obvious after the fact.
A used 25 may be all the horn he'll ever need.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Don't beat yourself up for buying a fake. I've been caught out. It all seems so obvious after the fact.

Yes, I was caught out on a Fender guitar

A used 25 may be all the horn he'll ever need.

yes

 

[JayeNM]

Now I am very reluctant on what to even get for my son. I want him to have a nice instrument, but he is only 14 and possible to only play through high school. I am sick of paying for a rental that is not the best condition... but also can't afford many of the prices I am seeing for new ones. I may just have to suck it up and buy something in the Intermediate level from my local store that I at least know I can trust. (They have a YAS-300 in stock)

Hello and sorry to hear of your situation. I sent you a private message....

 

[DavidUK]

George (JayeNM on here) runs 2ndending.com.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy a used sax from him if I were in the USA.

A used YAS-25, as has been said, would be a great horn for your son.

 

[Micah008]

As an update: I did finally receive my refund for the saxophone... it took a long time due to the seller not cooperating and due to the saxophone getting stuck in customs, but in the end I did not lose anything.

Thanks again for the help here, it is truly appreciated.