Double Octave Key

AlistairD · Jan 27, 2007

Hi,

Anyone know how easy it is to get a double octave key modified to be a single octave...???

Also, having never played a double octave is it really difficult or not to switch between horns one with a double and one without?

Many thanks,

Linky Lee · Jan 27, 2007

I don't think it actually makes a difference to feel.
It's still only the one octave key, it just opens two different tone holes depending on what notes you are fingering, as far as I'm aware of.

If not I'd be interested in finding out more about this double octave key thing.

Not sure why you would want to convert from a double to a single. It's designed to be better, though if it isn't working properly then it could hinder some other things.

AlistairD · Jan 27, 2007

Thanks, but my understanding is that early saxes had two octave keys, one for each of the two octave vents.... On modern saxes there is a single key which opens one or other of the octave vents depending on the note being fingered....

griff136 · Jan 27, 2007

AlistairD wrote:
Thanks, but my understanding is that early saxes had two octave keys, one for each of the two octave vents.... On modern saxes there is a single key which opens one or other of the octave vents depending on the note being fingered....

you are right Alistair - some earlier saxes had 2 8ve keys - some oboes still have two!

Regards your question - it is possible to convert a double for an "automatic" 8va mech -

keys such as the G key arm would need to be modified by soldering a foot on, then a "modern" type 8va mech cannibalised from a donor horn soldered on - including posts etc, the paddle on the key (the bit you press with your thumb would probably need to be either extended or shortened to fit correctly.

and thats just for starters!

not a cheap option.

AlistairD · Jan 27, 2007

Griff,

Thanks, it doesn't sound like it's worth the expenditure. If I go for this horn then I guess I'll need to learn to use both 8vas...

griff136 · Jan 27, 2007

what type of horn is it?
do you intend to play it with other instruments? I only ask this as the sax is more than likely high pitched so it will not ever be in tune with modern instruments.

Pete Thomas · Jan 28, 2007

AlistairD wrote:

Thanks, it doesn't sound like it's worth the expenditure. If I go for this horn then I guess I'll need to learn to use both 8vas...

Not something I'd like to learn.

AlistairD · Jan 28, 2007

Pete Thomas wrote:

AlistairD wrote:

Thanks, it doesn't sound like it's worth the expenditure. If I go for this horn then I guess I'll need to learn to use both 8vas...

Read more…

Not something I'd like to learn.

Pete,

If it woudl be hard for you then I think I give this horn a miss...

Thanks for the advice.

philthd · Apr 30, 2007

the first sax i learned on was an ancient heavy alto my school owned which had 2 octave mechanisms and i just learned what to press when (its a simple cutoff). its one extra think to think about at first, but doesnt make playing significantly harder.

i certainly wouldnt let it put me off a horn whose character and feel i otherwise liked.

and im sure i heard somewhere that you can use both together to pull some higher harmonic note into tune

[EDIT] wanted to add that i still find myself moving my thumb sideways for some notes and upwards for others - which can be a pain when trying to play saxes with straight up octave keys

conoldb · Jun 28, 2007

Does anyone know the history or value of a Paul Beucher Alto with two octave keys. The address on the bell is '25 Boul Beaumarhus, Paris. ' I beleive that address dates it between 1927 and 1936 when Paul Beucher was at that location.
conoldb

Linky Lee · Jun 28, 2007

If you've got a serial number you can put it to the year and there are lots of vintage saxophone websites that will give you an average figure. Then plus or minus for condition, re-lacquer and many other things. The more original the better generally.

Pete Thomas · Jun 29, 2007

conoldb wrote:
Does anyone know the history or value of a Paul Beucher Alto with two octave keys. The address on the bell is '25 Boul Beaumarhus, Paris. ' I beleive that address dates it between 1927 and 1936 when Paul Beucher was at that location.
conoldb

Welcome to the forum conoldb. Sorry I can't help with the value or history.

You would be better off starting a new thread with your question, you might get more replies.

spike · Jun 29, 2007

Conoldb - Shall I wait for a new thread or shall I answer, Is the spelling of Beucher correct? is it not Buescher? - according to my history books, no record of a french manufacturer of that or similar name, rather an american company founded in 1894. The two octave keys would make it an early true tone and probably older than 1927. Check that spelling and give me some more info, serial no. pics maybe. gruss - spike

philthd · Jun 29, 2007

if im right

former conn employee buescher founded beuscher in elkhart

but paul beuscher is a different french vendor of instruments and music publisher. they still exist http://www.paul-beuscher.com/

my assumption would be that these horns werent made by them, only stamped with their name

i saw one on ebay once really cheap, got excited about a cheap beuscher did a tiny bit of interweb research, found out the above and left well alone

spike · Jun 29, 2007

Yes, well, hadn't heard of paul beuscher but that was my suspicion, unfortunately there were about thirty different horn makers in and around paris in those days and the double octave key was quite normal.

conoldb · Jun 29, 2007

spike wrote:
Yes, well, hadn't heard of paul beuscher but that was my suspicion, unfortunately there were about thirty different horn makers in and around paris in those days and the double octave key was quite normal.

Spike, Thanks for that. I have sent an e-mail to Paul Beuscher.com. I will wait and see if they can translate my english. I am not the owner of the instrument. The owner asked me to check if it was playable, what the value was and would it be suitable to learn to play on. It was playable, quite nice actualy, but I advised her to get a modern sax to learn on. If it were mine I would keep it for its age and difference from today's saxes. I own a Lyrist Tenor from around 1927 which I played in small groups in the sixties so it would be a 'nice to have'.!!

ADMIN EDIT: I fixed the quotes, you write the response after the "[/quote]"

griff136 · Jun 29, 2007

Hi all,

I think I'm right in saying that the Paul Beuscher mentioned here is a music company that was formed in the mid 1800's. I should imaginr that their saxophones were probably stencils i.e made by someone else and then had their name engraved on them.

here's a thread you may like to take a look at on SOTW

http://www.saxontheweb.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=58626&highlight=paul+beuscher