Tone or Sound Does vibrato oscillate below the pitch, above it, or somewhere between

[Ghr9204]

As a string player, on the cello the vibrato is centred on the note and goes above and below. You can vary both the depth and the speed of the vibrato.

That has always been my perception when I do vibrato on the sax. It is above and below the note being played. I find that mimicking the stringed instrument's vibrato in speed and depth most effective when solo or lead, plus mimicking the changes in dynamics in phrasing like a stringed instrument.

 

[rhysonsax]

I found another academic study online, this time a doctoral work by Thomas Zinninger in 2013 entitled An Analysis of Concert Saxophone Vibrato Through the Examination of Recordings by Eight Prominent Soloists. These soloists were top names from the classical saxophone world over many years (Abato, Bornkamp, Delangle, Londeix, Mule, Murphy, Rascher and Rousseau).

The work contains a section on Variance Above and Below Pitch which seems most relevant and here are some brief extracts.

• On pre-existing recordings, far too many variables such as intonation of the soloist, intonation of the accompaniment, or playback speed of the recording exist to simply measure a note against its “correct” pitch. Furthermore, the “correct” pitch within the software will always be with respect to equal temperament tuning, a system the saxophone is not constrained by. The only way to measure the amount of vibrato extent above and below the intended pitch on pre-existing recordings was to find notes that contained both straight tone and vibrato.
• Thirty-four notes (an average of 4.25 per soloist) across all recordings were found that contained both straight tone and vibrato. The majority of these had straight tone at the beginning of the note with vibrato added later, but the opposite was found in a few. The extent from the straight tone to the highest pitch and lowest pitch within the vibrato cycle was measured and then compared to the overall vibrato extent of the note. The mean extent across all soloists was 28.7% above the pitch, and 71.3% below the pitch. [my underlining] This finding agrees with the pedagogical belief that saxophone vibrato exists mostly below the intended pitch, but conflicts with those who believe it is only below the pitch. Of all notes measured, only two (one by Bornkamp, and one by Londeix) had zero extent above the static pitch.
• Each soloist followed the general trend of playing vibrato with a greater extent below than above pitch, although Delangle’s variance was close to even. Rascher was the only soloist to use vibrato that neared 100% below the pitch. It is clear that the notion of saxophone vibrato being “under” the pitch is quite universal. Of every note measured, only three (one each by Bornkamp, Delangle, and Rousseau) had a greater variance above the pitch than below.

Again, this is for classical saxophonists only, but the methodology is interesting and the conclusions well supported by actual data from musical (rather than laboratory) recordings, as opposed to subjective impressions or intentions.

Rhys

 

[Pete Effamy]

I found another academic study online, this time a doctoral work by Thomas Zinninger in 2013 entitled An Analysis of Concert Saxophone Vibrato Through the Examination of Recordings by Eight Prominent Soloists. These soloists were top names from the classical saxophone world over many years (Abato, Bornkamp, Delangle, Londeix, Mule, Murphy, Rascher and Rousseau).

The work contains a section on Variance Above and Below Pitch which seems most relevant and here are some brief extracts.

• On pre-existing recordings, far too many variables such as intonation of the soloist, intonation of the accompaniment, or playback speed of the recording exist to simply measure a note against its “correct” pitch. Furthermore, the “correct” pitch within the software will always be with respect to equal temperament tuning, a system the saxophone is not constrained by. The only way to measure the amount of vibrato extent above and below the intended pitch on pre-existing recordings was to find notes that contained both straight tone and vibrato.
• Thirty-four notes (an average of 4.25 per soloist) across all recordings were found that contained both straight tone and vibrato. The majority of these had straight tone at the beginning of the note with vibrato added later, but the opposite was found in a few. The extent from the straight tone to the highest pitch and lowest pitch within the vibrato cycle was measured and then compared to the overall vibrato extent of the note. The mean extent across all soloists was 28.7% above the pitch, and 71.3% below the pitch. This finding agrees with the pedagogical belief that saxophone vibrato exists mostly below the intended pitch, but conflicts with those who believe it is only below the pitch. Of all notes measured, only two (one by Bornkamp, and one by Londeix) had zero extent above the static pitch.
• Each soloist followed the general trend of playing vibrato with a greater extent below than above pitch, although Delangle’s variance was close to even. Rascher was the only soloist to use vibrato that neared 100% below the pitch. It is clear that the notion of saxophone vibrato being “under” the pitch is quite universal. Of every note measured, only three (one each by Bornkamp, Delangle, and Rousseau) had a greater variance above the pitch than below.

Again, this is for classical saxophonists only, but the methodology is interesting and the conclusions well supported by actual data from musical (rather than laboratory) recordings rather than subjective impressions or intentions.

Rhys

I wonder, especially in the final case (more pitch above) that it’s to do where their tuning / intonation is - hence the few notes that were biased with pitch above, was because those notes were perceived as being on the flat side and they were being “mitigated “

 

[rhysonsax]

I wonder, especially in the final case (more pitch above) that it’s to do where their tuning / intonation is - hence the few notes that were biased with pitch above, was because those notes were perceived as being on the flat side and they were being “mitigated “

As far as I can tell the thesis doesn't appear to give data about how far the pitch of the note with vibrato was above that for it without for those three notes. It could be a tiny fraction of a Cent and so relatively meaningless.

It's worth reading the whole of that part of the document. There is data on the (frequency) depth of the recorded vibrato but I imagine that these performers are basically playing beautifully in tune, at least as far as the normal listener can tell. Basically a few cents here or there for a fleeting moment (because of vibrato) in the context of a musical performance are neither here nor there. And the sample of recorded notes is relatively small.

But that's from my perspective as an amateur player with average ears. What do professional musicians in various genres consider "good pitch", and presumably that is different for a note without vibrato to one with ?

Rhys

PS Thinking about your point some more, I don't think that would be the case - remember that the study compares the pitch of the same note without vibrato and with vibrato added. And that is at a single point in the performance.