Saxophones Do you have a backup sax - how often do you play it?

[Pete Effamy]

This makes sense. I noticed that I practiced more if I can just grab a horn and play a bit, however as we all know (maybe) it's not good practice to leave a sax out all the time.

This has worked for me in the past for a short while, before I realise the mind-games that I'm playing with myself.

 

[Pete Effamy]

The heavy in demand session-/performer playere use to have 2-3 saxes playing as close as possible to each other. 2-3 Keilwerths, 2-3 MkVI, 2-3 YTS 62 ..... which are set-up by the same tech. They are paid to take good care of thier saxes so they can "deliver".

This is interesting. We know that the top (and famous) players tend to have multiple horns - Sanborn had many. But was this for a practical reason ?

If we had the money (and the need ?):

would we:

1. try and find a horn that more or less played the same as our favoured horn;
- eg I know some mk6 players try and find instruments close in serial number to their main horn (as a spare);

2. have a few horns that are the "accepted great horns";
- like a 10m, Silversonic, SBA, Mk6 - (so that we can push our sound to the nth degree if we wanted to do a particular project and wanted as much period authenticity as possible)

3. just collect them like classic cars;

4. are they given to these top players - well yes, I think we know that to be true.

There are many accounts / album notes to say that an artist plays xx horn through sponsorship. We also know this to rather untrue much of the time - apart from the posed picture on the album cover.

We also know that people do change instruments from time to time - although this might apply more to mouthpieces and their wanting something of an easier blow as they get older, or maybe styles / fashion has changed too.

I think Sanborn played on a silver-plated Yamaha for a while didn't he ? It would be a feat to pick it out by ear though, and I think that mic choices / different studios / fashion for more / less compression / type of reverb will sound more like a change.
If he did play other horns for any period we can only presume that he did so because he felt / heard something different that he liked. This might only be perceived by him (maybe) - but it is something that I understand.

My mk 6 alto and my Woodstone Ishimori sound very alike when I play them, but they don't interact with me in the same way - so I'm led to play slightly differently on each. I do have a recording of a funky thing over the same backing track with the two horns, and I think I'm led to different places.

I could post them I guess, if anyone is interested. How would I post an mp3 ?

 

[Zasterz]

however as we all know (maybe) it's not good practice to leave a sax out all the time.

Why not?

 

[Pete Thomas]

Why not?

Dust (unless of course you dust it - but then you need to leave the duster out all the time)

 

[Wonko]

Dust (unless of course you dust it - but then you need to leave the duster out all the time)

I don't mind a little dust.....
Mine are on the wall in my practice room. I get the impression that (since that room isn't used for much besides practicing sax) not a lot of dust gets thrown in the air.

 

[cappers]

however as we all know (maybe) it's not good practice to leave a sax out all the time.

I leave mine out on their stands covered with a fine mesh net curtain. Keeps the dust and dog hairs off and the horns are ready to pick up when wanted. The room is my 'study/den' which doesn't get much traffic and I dust and hoover in there to minimise the risk of accidents.

 

[thomsax]

This is interesting. We know that the top (and famous) players tend to have multiple horns - Sanborn had many. But was this for a practical reason ?

Of course, I don't know for sure. Tourring (worldwide) saxplayers had saxes in Asia, North-America, Europe .... this was bigger productions. I guess Sandborn, Brecker ..... travelled and carried thier own saxes. But I guess they had saxes back home in case of something happened.

1. try and find a horn that more or less played the same as our favoured horn;
- eg I know some mk6 players try and find instruments close in serial number to their main horn (as a spare);

Yes, if the music and saxes is paying your bills. At least that's what I would do.

2. have a few horns that are the "accepted great horns";
- like a 10m, Silversonic, SBA, Mk6 - (so that we can push our sound to the nth degree if we wanted to do a particular project and wanted as much period authenticity as possible)

I think it's less about what a player wants to do. It's to fullfill the audience expectations. I'm not talking of gigs at places with 400-800 seats.

3. just collect them like classic cars

If that is what players wants do with thier money.

The big productions are not so frequent these days. Springsteen and E-Street Band use to play a stadions with 50 000 -60 000 seats. How many bands have a saxplayer as frontperson these days??

A player played in Amsterdam with a borrowed YTS 25. His sax was lost on Schiphod. Another player had problem to fly out from USA with his new back-up sax. So these days It's not as it use to be in the 70' or 80's.

Is back-up horns just another exprssion instead of GAS?

My friend had to do visit his sax techs many times before his new sax was playing in the style of his old Mk VI. So diffent saxes/models can play in the same style

 

[Targa]

Dust (unless of course you dust it - but then you need to leave the duster out all the time)

I have mine covered with a simple rectangular bag made from garden fleece.
@Pete Thomas, get your wife to knock out a few of those in her spare time with a bit of a cafe sax logo and flog them on here for £10 a time for cafe funds.

 

[stitch]

@Pete Thomas, get your wife to knock out a few of those in her spare time with a bit of a cafe sax logo and flog them on here for £10 a time for cafe funds.

Maybe if she has time once she's done the shopping, finished the cleaning and cooked the dinner ...

 

[Targa]

Maybe if she has time once she's done the shopping, finished the cleaning and cooked the dinner ...

Surely in this day and age you wouldn’t expect your wife to do all that, don’t you have any servants?

 

[stitch]

don’t you have any servants?

I'm not a cat.

 

[JayeNM]

Being a repairer, I encounter a fair # of folks with back up horns. I think the terminology needs to be defined, tho.

As noted in some previous replies, some folks simply OWN two horns of the same voice.

They may utilize one more than other, but they utilize the second not because the first is out of commission, but because they like both and the second gives some desired variety.

That isn't a back up horn, just a second one.

To me, a back up is one lying around for when either...

a) first is in the shop or otherwise unavailable

b) one is on the precious side and they want the back up for "rougher" gigs....outdoors, marching, clubs or venues where something about the context might be a bit "rough and tumble"

Two good friends who i consider as having backups, and they refer to them as that -

- one guy plays an VI and his backup is an RS Berkeley, which he says actually feels more responsive ergonimically than his VI (but sounds sorta meh and doesn't have the blowing response of the VI). Being a Tenor player they are not carry-on sized, so he flies with the Berkeley.

-one guy's main is a Yama 475 and his backup is an Allora Paris. Personally...I do NOT find the Allora to be a lesser horn in any way...but he says the action on the Yama is better. He literally only plays the latter when his Yama is in the shop.

In both instances the backup is really a similar pedigree of the main, and their decisions there were based upon budget plus just wanting a second horn which had the feel and key layout close to the first, and would be reliable if it suddenly got picked up after five months in the closet....
-

 

[sax panther]

Most of my gigs are on tenor, so I have a backup tenor. Same make, similar feel as my main one.

The main one was in Stephen Howard's magic shed for about 6 weeks December to January, in which time I had 5 tenor gigs, so the backup has paid for itself. I give it a quick toot around d once a month usually to make sure it's still gig ready. I have friends who would happily lend me one, but feel more comfortable having one readily available.

Bari gigs are picking up and pretty regular now, so I'm considering getting a nicer bari and keeping my old one as a backup.

 

[Greg Strange]

This is interesting. We know that the top (and famous) players tend to have multiple horns - Sanborn had many. But was this for a practical reason ?

If we had the money (and the need ?):

would we:

1. try and find a horn that more or less played the same as our favoured horn;
- eg I know some mk6 players try and find instruments close in serial number to their main horn (as a spare);

2. have a few horns that are the "accepted great horns";
- like a 10m, Silversonic, SBA, Mk6 - (so that we can push our sound to the nth degree if we wanted to do a particular project and wanted as much period authenticity as possible)

3. just collect them like classic cars;

4. are they given to these top players - well yes, I think we know that to be true.

There are many accounts / album notes to say that an artist plays xx horn through sponsorship. We also know this to rather untrue much of the time - apart from the posed picture on the album cover.

We also know that people do change instruments from time to time - although this might apply more to mouthpieces and their wanting something of an easier blow as they get older, or maybe styles / fashion has changed too.

I think Sanborn played on a silver-plated Yamaha for a while didn't he ? It would be a feat to pick it out by ear though, and I think that mic choices / different studios / fashion for more / less compression / type of reverb will sound more like a change.
If he did play other horns for any period we can only presume that he did so because he felt / heard something different that he liked. This might only be perceived by him (maybe) - but it is something that I understand.

My mk 6 alto and my Woodstone Ishimori sound very alike when I play them, but they don't interact with me in the same way - so I'm led to play slightly differently on each. I do have a recording of a funky thing over the same backing track with the two horns, and I think I'm led to different places.

I could post them I guess, if anyone is interested. How would I post an mp3 ?

Sanborn playing a gold plated Yamaha 62 at Montreux 1981 - I think he played the Yamaha on the Voyeur, As We Speak and Backstreet albums after his Mark VI with the high F# was stolen...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxgnNe4JiG0&list=RDIxgnNe4JiG0&start_radio=1


Greg S.

 

[cappers]

Played my 'backup' YTS-25 today for a change. The keywork is the same as on my YTS-32 and it's like playing the same horn although I and others think the '32 has a slightly richer, fuller tone.
I was thinking of selling the '25 after I got the '32 but I've decided to keep it for sentimental and practical reasons.

some folks simply OWN two horns of the same voice.

They may utilize one more than other, but they utilize the second not because the first is out of commission, but because they like both and the second gives some desired variety.

That isn't a back up horn, just a second one.

That sums it up for me. I'm not a collector, don't have GAS, just ended up with two tenors I like. (and one alto).

 

[dexdex]

Sanborn playing a gold plated Yamaha 62 at Montreux 1981 - I think he played the Yamaha on the Voyeur, As We Speak and Backstreet albums after his Mark VI with the high F# was stolen...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxgnNe4JiG0&list=RDIxgnNe4JiG0&start_radio=1


Greg S.

I was there. My first exposure to DS. Didn’t care about horns and makes by then. And was hooked to David Sanborn’s music forever.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Sanborn playing a gold plated Yamaha 62 at Montreux 1981 - I think he played the Yamaha on the Voyeur, As We Speak and Backstreet albums after his Mark VI with the high F# was stolen...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxgnNe4JiG0&list=RDIxgnNe4JiG0&start_radio=1


Greg S.

Thanks Greg. Saw an interview with Tom Scott yesterday and he said that Sanborn was always looking for a better horn and always fiddling with them.
My mate had dinner with him a few years back as he lives in Honolulu and played in Rickie Peterson’s band for a while - Rickie got them tickets when Sanborn came thru and they had dinner too.
He said that because of his Polio he was always looking to shave off weight from the horn, in any area possible.
He also said that he had the same meal before every gig and had done so for years.

 

[Dr G]

Played my 'backup' YTS-25 today for a change. The keywork is the same as on my YTS-32 and it's like playing the same horn although I and others think the '32 has a slightly richer, fuller tone.
I was thinking of selling the '25 after I got the '32 but I've decided to keep it for sentimental and practical reasons.


That sums it up for me. I'm not a collector, don't have GAS, just ended up with two tenors I like. (and one alto).

Your tenors called me to say that they have misgivings about the alto in your household. Something about commitment issues and trust.

 

[turf3]

The idea of a "backup" is that should your main horn become unavailable (pad fell out? Dropped?) you can play the gigs on the backup till the main one gets fixed.

As J above noted, this is different from having more than one of the same voice, because one likes the different results the different horns give.

An example of the first, I think would be me: with a Conn 10M tenor, I also have a 16M Mexi-Conn tenor that I could use if the 10M goes down. Similar acoustic design, similar keywork design.

On the other hand the guy who has two altos a Selmer mark 6 and a King Super 20, probably gets rather different things from each, and I wouldn't call that "backup".

All that said, a true backup instrument is just like the spare tire on your car. You have to be able to USE it when you need it. A spare tire with no air in isn't much help. Similarly, when I pulled out my "backup" alto a couple weeks ago and found I couldn't play anything below middle F, well, that horn wasn't serving me as a"backup", was it? Heck, if something happened to my main alto, it would STILL have been playing better. So just having two dozen altos but only one of them actuallly will play all the way down to a soft low Bb - that's not having backup horns, that's just accumulating junk that sooner or later will have to be dealt with.

 

[Targa]

All that said, a true backup instrument is just like the spare tire on your car. You have to be able to USE it when you need it. A spare tire with no air in isn't much help.

Except that now you open the spare sax case and find something a lot smaller that wears out after a few tunes or worse a spray can of glue to squirt down the bell.