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Saxophones Decisions decisions....TWO10 vs TWO20

Colin the Bear

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The yani mouthpieces have a good reputation. It might be worth sticking with the one that came with it before investing in something unknown.

The resistance may well be down to regulation. It may play away or need a small tweak or two.
 
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Alexandra

Alexandra

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I actually just had it looked at today (thanks Curly) - and the bell keys were leaky, so it's playing much better now.

I'm pretty happy with the stock MP, even though it's quite a small tip opening (Yany 7...think that's a .90?) A Rovner dark lig and some Jazz Selects and Vandoren ZZs - that'll do for now!
 

Stephen Howard

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My new brass horn does feel more resistant but I'm enjoying it so far and hope to settle quickly on a (cheap) MP & reed combo that suits me. I haven't had it long because I was finding it hard to let the TWO20 go. I had them both sent out to me on trial, bronze first then brass. Ideally I would have played them from home side by side but that would have been too costly.

The bronze bell and bore felt 'thinner' than the brass, less solid, which may attribute to the sound differences; it was very free-blowing as someone mentioned above...but maybe it was just the horn I tried.
I've played a fair few 010/020 Yanis now, and I've not found any appreciable difference between them - over and above the usual variation you get with any apparently identical horns. And you can effectively dial this out by swapping the crooks around. Had you been able to get your hands on the 010 and the 020 at the same time, you might well have discovered this for yourself.
So if, at a later date, you have a hankering for a slightly different tone - your first (and cheapest) option after a new mouthpiece would be to try a different crook.
I suspect, though, that you'll end up not bothering. The new Yanis are very versatile horns, and once you've got your chops in I think you'll find it's a very accommodating blow.

As for the thickness of the body material, I doubt there's any difference at all. It'd require a different production setup for each variant, which would really ramp up the cost of manufacture.
 

MarkSax

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your first (and cheapest) option after a new mouthpiece would be to try a different crook.
I’ve heard the same be said for Selmer SA 2 and SA 3 with some claiming that the SA3 crook audibly improves the SA2 tone by far more than the reverse. Asking because am spending my hard earned GAS on a Yani or an SA2. I’d welcome your thoughts on this and apologies if I hijacked the OP.
 
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Alexandra

Alexandra

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I’d welcome your thoughts on this and apologies if I hijacked the OP
OP here! No apology needed, I'm interested in the difference a new crook can make too :)

I recall play-testing two identical AWO10 Yanagisawa altos in a music store and decided to switch the necks. One alto felt resistant but had a lovely tone, the other was free-blowing but had a harsher, more brash sound. I was surprised that the altos didn't play as well with the swapped necks, even though the models were exactly the same. One of the altos (the resistant one) barely played at all with the other neck. Do they need to be specially fitted even if they're designed for a specific sax model?

I can't comment on the Selmer crooks as I've no experience with them. Are you looking to buy a new horn or new necks for an existing horn? If the former, start with what you have before thinking of changing necks. I had a good practice today with my new TWO10 because I tried lots of reeds, ligatures and just got myself familiarised with my new tenor.

Maybe I'll try some crooks further down the line but I'd be interested on anyones thoughts about ensuring a good fit.
 

Stephen Howard

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I’ve heard the same be said for Selmer SA 2 and SA 3 with some claiming that the SA3 crook audibly improves the SA2 tone by far more than the reverse. Asking because am spending my hard earned GAS on a Yani or an SA2. I’d welcome your thoughts on this and apologies if I hijacked the OP.
If it were my money, I'd go for the Yani over the Selmer.
I'm not a big fan of the Selmer's bloated midrange - and the new Yani's have a great deal more 'sparkle' than the older models...so my tonal preference would steer me toward the Yani. But that's just me.

However, I'm all for getting the best value for my money - and Selmer have been dropping the ball with regard to build quality and quality control for many years now...while Yanagisawa have been raising the bar.

You'd be well advised to try both horns, of course, and form your own conclusions as regards tone and playability - but from an engineering perspective the Yani is some way ahead.
And, of course, I'd thoroughly recommend trying out the TJ RAW against both horns - given that it has a respectable build quality and nicely bridges the tonal divide between the two marques.
 

Stephen Howard

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I recall play-testing two identical AWO10 Yanagisawa altos in a music store and decided to switch the necks. One alto felt resistant but had a lovely tone, the other was free-blowing but had a harsher, more brash sound. I was surprised that the altos didn't play as well with the swapped necks, even though the models were exactly the same. One of the altos (the resistant one) barely played at all with the other neck. Do they need to be specially fitted even if they're designed for a specific sax model?
Ideally a crook needs to be individually fitted to a horn. You'd be surprised at how much 'oomph' you can lose if the crook is a poor fit.
Most modern horns are built to pretty decent specs, so in theory you ought to be able to take a crook from one horn and pop it right on another of the same make and model with no fuss. And in most cases this is what happens. But if there's even a fraction of a dimensional mismatch it's going to have an impact.
As far as I'm aware, no manufacturer does crook matching as standard.

Bear in mind too that the geometry of the octave key mech may be different on otherwise identical horns, which may result in a different crook leaking at the crook key pad. This will have a very significant impact on the playability.
 

Alphorn

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I will give my 2 cents here, although I am an itermediate player at best and I am well aware of Stephen's experience and reputation. Nevertheless.

Last year I bought an AW02 alto that I playtested vs an AW01. The AW02 being the exact same sax but built from bronce sounded weightier, slightly broader with some more mids. The AW01 was more focussed, brighter or to speak with Stephen, had more sparkle. I reminded me of a YAS62. I brought along a purple logo YAS62 as a reference. The AW02 seemed to be more in the direction of a Selmer Series II. Now the interesting thing is, there is a comparison of the AW01 vs AW02 from Dawkes on Youtube. With decent speakers or headphones I hear the same difference I experienced when I playtested the Yanis. Now these are different horns in the hand of a pro player, but the result is the same. I tend to assign it to the material. Did I mention? I love my AW02.

Assigning necks? I at least have an indication for that with Yanagisawa. I had a SW010 here for playtesting just last week. The sax came with the sax body and the 2 necks protected in plastic bags inside the case. The plastic bags for the necks had the serial number of the body noted on it with a waterproof pencil. I don't believe this was done by the shop, as they normally don't have multiple Yani sopranos on stock where they would run the risk of mixing up the necks. Can't say anything about my AW02 as there were any protective bags in the case when I bought it off the display wall.

Alphorn
 

Colin the Bear

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I'm much of the opinion that play testing horns may just be comparing the regulation and set up. A tiny leak can affect your opinion of any horn.
 

Stephen Howard

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Now the interesting thing is, there is a comparison of the AW01 vs AW02 from Dawkes on Youtube. With decent speakers or headphones I hear the same difference I experienced when I playtested the Yanis. Now these are different horns in the hand of a pro player, but the result is the same. I tend to assign it to the material. Did I mention? I love my AW02.
There may be many reasons why apparently identical horns sound different - an important one being (as Colin mentions) the set up and regulation. Psycho-acoustics is another.
Despite all my decades in the business, if you blindfolded me and handed me brass and bronze variants of the same horns to play-test, I still couldn't tell them apart.
The last time I was able to hear a difference, it turned out to be all in the crook.

Assigning necks? I at least have an indication for that with Yanagisawa. I had a SW010 here for playtesting just last week. The sax came with the sax body and the 2 necks protected in plastic bags inside the case. The plastic bags for the necks had the serial number of the body noted on it with a waterproof pencil. I don't believe this was done by the shop, as they normally don't have multiple Yani sopranos on stock where they would run the risk of mixing up the necks. Can't say anything about my AW02 as there were any protective bags in the case when I bought it off the display wall.
Assigning crooks isn't the same thing as matching them. If there was any matching at all I suspect it would be confined to general fit (which isn't the same as a proper fit) and the setup of the crook key.
I sometimes see such marks on Chinese horns - and this is probably because there's often quite a degree of variation in the diameter of the crook receivers/tenons. I call it a 'Best Fit' mark.
 
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