Saxophones Dave Walker Saxes

[JayeNM]

I don't see what's the problem? Some interesting details on the sax. It's free to watch and read. If you don't like it go to another page. I like it. And I also like Powell Eagle, King Super 21, Codera, Allesophone (R&C), Grafton ..... . Always interesting to read about saxes? Maybe it's just a "look at us and see what we can do".

Eb Alto Saxophone - Alessophone - Rampone & Cazzani Handmade Italian Saxophones

Rampone & Cazzani is an Italian manufacturer of wind instruments, specializing in the production of handmade saxophones by highly skilled craftsmen. The company is located in Quarna Sotto (Italy).

www.ramponecazzani.com

I think the 'problem' is how the horn is presented on its own webpage, and also the way the OP chose to intimate that it isn't really all that expensive when you consider what a VI costs.

It may be a cool horn....but neither its own makers' descriptors nor the OP's manner of introduction to it have done much to communicate the specifics of that....

Recall how the Eagle was introduced, for example. Description of makers' intent, and of the horn itself, was quite factual and compelling; not hackneyed.

 

[JayeNM]

I also think that at a price point of 7K these horns are Niche market and perhaps Dave Walker doesn't necessarily want hundreds of folk wanting to buy them if he himself alone is assembling, padding and setting them up,

IMHO, nothing substantial has been presented which indicates this to be the case whatsoever....but rather just typical, somewhat vague marketing semantics which oftentimes intimate things which do not necessarily translate into what we may initially think....

 

[Pete Thomas]

It'd be a shame for these saxes not to succeed, although if they are 7 grand then sales will be slow - I think the reason people spend lots of money on a vintage Mark VI isn't because they want to spend 6 or 7 grand on a sax so much as they want a Mark VI and that's what they cost.

And the Powell Silver Eagle failed due to that kind of pricing. I think they may have been relying on a slightly related USP, ie an all-American made saxophone with a bit of the King history plus the hoped for appeal to well-healed patriots. But no. Didn't work.

IMO some instruments are worth paying a premium for, e.g. Inderbinen and R & C - there is some special magic but many people won't get it if they are seduced by the MKVI myth as opposed to being able to evaluate a horn that is as good or better. It's easier to go for the myth.

 

[GCinCT]

And the Powell Silver Eagle failed due to that kind of pricing. I think they may have been relying on a slightly related USP, ie an all-American made saxophone with a bit of the King history plus the hoped for appeal to well-healed patriots. But no. Didn't work.

The term "Made in America" doesn't hold nearly the cache it once did, even here in the States. (Except amongst the group that tends to play banjos, rather than saxophones. 😉)

We once made great cars and musical instruments, among other things, but that was a long time ago. Not to mention so many "American" made goods that are outsourced to other countries.

I have a King, but it was made in 1946. My other alto and my soprano are Yamahas and I drive a Honda. We want quality.

 

[Saxodent]

To clear up a few points.
Firstly I have no financial interest in their sales or distribution but I am seriously now considering downsizing my collection to buy one !

I only first saw or heard of them about 8 weeks ago having had a chance meeting with Shabaka Hutchins in Howarths Saxophone Shop near Baker St where he was playing his Silver one getting a pad redone.
I had seen his horn in a photo and could not work out what make it was mainly because of the Key Guards being so unusual.
So I just went up and asked him because trust me it sounded awesome !
He told me” It’s a Dave Walker mate made in Yorkshire !”
So when I got home I found his Website and just emailed him having no preconceived idea about what the price would be etc but fully expecting them to be yet another Taiwan Stencil if I was being honest with you.

He got back to me later on that evening and explained how after repairing saxes for over 30+ years including maintaining all Snake Davis Saxes until he moved over to Yanagisawas (at Dave’s own recommendation I might add) he had decided to design the ultimate sax based on his considerable experience of dealing with and rebuilding Mark VIs Conn 10Ms King Suoer 20s etc with all their inherent flaws etc.
It has taken him years of development as I understand it and has only made 8 so far.
He said to me to please ask or talk to any of the owners Shabaka, Ed Jones Pete Wareham or Jerry Bergonzi independently about their Horns which they all paid the £7000+ I might add for he cannot afford to give any of them away for less or as a publicity stunt.
Shabaka’s Horn is also a collaboration of design ideas too as I understand it.

He did however say that he thought that following Jerry’s purchase it might be time for the rest of the world to know about them but he hand builds every single one from parts he has designed and made all the tooling and presses etc himself but the parts are individually made made in Czech Republic.
It sounds like it had taken nearly a decade of R&D to even build the first one.

Hopefully we will have more news in the Sax and Music press soon about them but he really does not have the time to tend to the website apparently.

Finally to all of this I met up with a friend of mine who also happens to be one of Jerry Bergonzi’s star ex pupils at Berklee and asked him if he knew anything about this new sax . All he told me was that Jerry loves it and sounds awesome and other American Big named players are taking it very seriously .
All I know is it’s British Made by a Yorkshireman with vision and passion.
So what’s not to like about that then at this uncertain time.

 

[thomsax]

Many countries are fighting against themselves. It's about the "self-image".. "Brexit", "Let's make ..... " are such signs.. We still believes that the best saxes were made in the past? Maybe,? "Mexico", "CZ", "China" .... are forever bad saxophone nations/builders? I talked to some guys who were into saxophone manufactoring. They told me: "You need money and an open mind to make saxophones". Forget the past, the music industry is changing all the time". . Saxophone manufactoring is very much crossover projects. .

 

[Clivey]

Many countries are fighting against themselves. It's about the "self-image".. "Brexit", "Let's make ..... " are such signs.. We still believes that the best saxes were made in the past? Maybe,? "Mexico", "CZ", "China" .... are forever bad saxophone nations/builders? I talked to some guys who were into saxophone manufactoring. They told me: "You need money and an open mind to make saxophones". Forget the past, the music industry is changing all the time". . Saxophone manufactoring is very much crossover projects. .

This very juicy website completely ticks all the boxes for me. Its in Chinese /Mandarin or whatever but still translates quite well. These guys have learned a lot from the porn websites methinks , This porn is very healthy however.

One final question remains though. Whos Fred?

the link.

萨克斯品牌_萨克斯价格_萨克斯专卖-罗林斯萨克斯官网

罗林斯萨克斯是一款极具性价比的专业萨克斯品牌,国际高品质萨克斯的领导品牌,支持天猫京东购买,货到付款,咨询热线:0313-5223835

www.rollinsax.cn

 

[Hankenstine]

Kudos to Dave Walker for trying something new. His horns look very interesting.

They have a facebook page here:

Oldroyd Walker Lineage | Leeds

Oldroyd Walker Lineage, Leeds. 314 followers. Oldroyd Walker LINEAGE is the creative brainchild of Dave Walker and Tim Oldroyd. Combining over seventy years of instrument design, technical...

www.facebook.com

Some nice pictures of Jerry Bergonzi's 24k gold plate tenor here:

Oldroyd Walker Lineage horns by Amati

I just saw an article from the Chicago Tribune about a recent Jerry Bergonzi performance. The subtle details reveal that Bergonzi was playing an Oldroyd Walker Lineage tenor. Here's the line's page at the Amati website: http://www.amatiusa.com/blow-monkey/

forum.saxontheweb.net

 

[JayeNM]

To clear up a few points.
Firstly I have no financial interest in their sales or distribution but I am seriously now considering downsizing my collection to buy one !

I only first saw or heard of them about 8 weeks ago having had a chance meeting with Shabaka Hutchins in Howarths Saxophone Shop near Baker St where he was playing his Silver one getting a pad redone.
I had seen his horn in a photo and could not work out what make it was mainly because of the Key Guards being so unusual.
So I just went up and asked him because trust me it sounded awesome !
He told me” It’s a Dave Walker mate made in Yorkshire !”....
He got back to me later on that evening and explained how after repairing saxes for over 30+ years including maintaining all Snake Davis Saxes until he moved over to Yanagisawas (at Dave’s own recommendation I might add) he had decided to design the ultimate sax based on his considerable experience of dealing with and rebuilding Mark VIs Conn 10Ms King Suoer 20s etc with all their inherent flaws etc.
It has taken him years of development as I understand it and has only made 8 so far.
... I might add for he cannot afford to give any of them away for less or as a publicity stunt.
Shabaka’s Horn is also a collaboration of design ideas too as I understand it.
He did however say that he thought that following Jerry’s purchase it might be time for the rest of the world to know about them but he hand builds every single one from parts he has designed and made all the tooling and presses etc himself but the parts are individually made made in Czech Republic.
It sounds like it had taken nearly a decade of R&D to even build the first one.
Hopefully we will have more news in the Sax and Music press soon about them but he really does not have the time to tend to the website apparently.
All I know is it’s British Made by a Yorkshireman with vision and passion.
So what’s not to like about that then at this uncertain time.

OK so thanks for replying ! It was good of you to reply in so measured a way.

A couple of things I have highlighted in your reply just for clarification...these things again having nothing to do with the final product itself but rather with how it is being described/marketed:

The tooling was designed and produced by Walker. The tooling resides in CZ. The parts are all fabricated in CZ, then imported into UK and the horns are assembled in UK.
Depending upon one's outlook, "British Made" may or may not be accurate, then.

Quite honestly, FWIW - I would think noting all of that on the website would be VERY beneficial:

"Designed by an Englishman with over a generation of experience in both vintage and contemporary horns; parts fabricated in CZ, completely assembled and regulated in England. Design, Tooling, Fabrication, Assembly, Final Regulation - a completely European-crafted endeavor."

Something as straightforward as THIS is just so much cleaner, 'attractive', and less...'suspicious-sounding' (for lack of a better phrase)...than the semantics the website has chosen to use.

As I said, cool looking instruments and I appreciate ingenuity in the musical instrument field. I'd offer my 2 bits of unsolicited advice, then:

1) although indeed one may take a position of "I cannot afford to give one away as a publicity stunt"...the fact is, IF the intent/desire is to actually start getting orders placed, and this model fabricated and out into the public in some sort of 'regularly available' fashion - one needs to come up with a marketing scheme which may well need to do EXACTLY that: give a few away...get some into sax shops as testers (perhaps for a reduced wholesale price to the shop?), etc....

2) "Hopefully we will have more news in the Sax and Music press soon about them but he really does not have the time to tend to the website apparently".

The most recent 'update' to the site appears to have been the announcement that one of these horns is gonna make an appearance at a NAMM 2017 event....

I'd say (gain IF the desire is to actually get orders and start producing these) someone on their end might wanna find the "time to tend to the website". I just whipped up an accurate 'hook' blurb in 30 seconds right here...and I am pretty certain I or any other respondent to this thread can spend 15 minutes of editing the text on that site and completely change the current impression it is making. (I don't mean to be persnickety here, but this appears to be a situation where something unique and interesting and possibly of very good quality is being completely undercut by a total absence of the most basic marketing).

On the other hand, this may just be a fellow who has really already realized his 'dream', and is perfectly OK with just producing two or three of these a year...dang that'd be cool enuff, in and of itself; it'd probably be very personally rewarding to have achieved that.

This is also completely OK, but one then needs to understand that in the absence of truly wanting to push a product, basically this is more akin to hiring a semi-custom builder; as opposed to really purchasing a 'production' sax.

Anyways, very interesting stuff.

 

[LGo]

I guess none of you are in the extremely lucky position of having Dave Service your horns, for that would make most of the naysayers on here redundant. I was lucky enough to have a chance to try the prototype, if I were a better player, and travelling a lot, I wouldn’t hesitate......lighter Than my MKV1, great action, great sound. What more do you want?

 

[DavidUK]

I refuse even to look at the website. They're calling me a monkey and telling me to blow? 🙁

Plus... I'd have to be a silly monkey to spend £7,000 on an unknown brand.

Cheeky monkies.

 

[sizzzzler]

A test of the Lineage. Personally i think the mouthpiece used is a bit constricting And id not chose a copper neck. For different setups and a fairer indication of what the sax can do listen to later Shabaka Hutchings and Nubya Garcia.

Online Sax School

This is an example page. It's different from a blog post because it will stay in one place and will show up in your site navigation (in most themes). Most

www.mcgillmusic.com

 

[GCinCT]

I'm very happy playing the horn I have. Would I like the Dave Walker better? Maybe. But I don' t have that kind of money to spend and my current saxophone does everything I need it to. Why bother?

 

[Adrian63]

Well I'm of no real opinion . A lot of the links to the horn are shut down but I managed to get a look plus a few soundclips and yeah nice enough.
I kind of hope it is like somebody suggested in one man realising his dream regardless of how many horns he makes ; sells or gives away ...

 

[Saxodent]

I think if Jerry Bergonzi bought one...and says he loves it .
That’s pretty much all you need to know isn’t it?

 

[Adrian63]

I'm very pleased old JB likes his horn as I can see how people's judgement can be influenced by endorsements : sadly I fear I'm a bit long in the tooth for all that though I wish Mr Walker every success...

 

[Saxodent]

And he did buy it ...all £20K of its Gold Plated-ness
Seriously though the redesign of the key work and attention to detail is astonishing .
Only a Repairer and Sax player awho knows instruments inside out could have done this

 

[GCinCT]

That's very nice. Charlie Parker and Cannonball Adderley liked the Super 20 and that's what I play. Does their endorsement count less than Jerry Bergonzi? 😉

Once again, I like the horn I have. We are all individuals. I'm not Jerry Bergonzi. I can't afford this horn. I'm glad there are people who can and that they love it.

 

[Adrian63]

I honestly wouldn't worry about it : whatever suits you is the important thing regardless of who plays what...
I do however play a Berg 130 and not at all because Lenny Pickett does ; in fact I've never heard of Lenny Pickett....dum de dum....

 

[Ivan]

The Dave Walker website seems invisible to Google search... Are they trying to avoid a Christmas rush?