Copyright questions.

Bobby G · Dec 8, 2007

It's clear to me that I couldn't put up a soundclip of me jamming along to Amy Winehouse's latest, but what would be legal? Could I for instance put up a clip of me noodling to an Aebersold backing track? What is the copyrightable (?) part of a tune - is it the melody, the lyrics (if any), the chord progression, or the total piece? Logically, a chord progression couldn't be copyrighted, otherwise whoever invented the twelve-bar blues would be minted and have a monopoly on the output of a large number of artists, so common sense says it's the melody.

So, if the melody is the copyrightable part, could you get round it by using a generic Aebersold backing track without actually playing the original melody?

old_git · Dec 9, 2007

To be legal, wait for the artist to do a Stockhausen, add another fifty to seventy years and you should be safe.
The major problem is will your lungs still be working after they've dug you up or tried superglueing the ashes together.
You could try cryogenics.

PaulyT · Dec 9, 2007

You could get yourself a cakewalk program - bung down a drum track (provided with Cakewalk) - put a generic bassline down - add a bit of guitar or keyboard - mix and burn onto a CD and jam to your own backing track! No copyright problems at all and good fun whilst you're doing it.

pauloalto · Dec 9, 2007

Google for
"band in a box" "PG music"

It's supposed to be a really good bit of software that allows you to create backing tracks

colin_ · Dec 9, 2007

Just to clarify, Bobby, there is copyright in the recording as well as the composition. So strictly speaking there would be a copyright issue with anything that wasn't created by yourself or supplied for that specific purpose.

Pete Thomas · Dec 9, 2007

[No message]

Mikec · Dec 9, 2007

I have an Aebersold CD to hand, it says specifically "...public performance and broadcast prohibited". If you go to Soundclick and investigate a little, you will find that they only allow uploads of songs if you own the copyright or have permission to do so from the copyright holder. Dmusic says in their info that they have a licence to allow covers, but then in the small print it says much the same as Soundclick. You will find many covers on both sites, and I suspect that not all are with permission. I would imagine that someone like me i.e. an amateur using a backing track or recording a cover for fun and wanting to share it with a few friends would not incur the full wrath of the Copyright Police, but you never know. It's also necessary to consider the position of the site owner; he or she could be considered to be the publisher and sued as well, perhaps. I think only a lawyer could give you an accurate picture of the situation.

Band in a Box is terrific for practise and for producing backing tracks, though the result depends a lot on your sound source.

Pete Thomas · Dec 9, 2007

I thought that would probably be the case. I wonder how many Youtube videos that start: "One..., two..., one, two, three, four" would come down if Mr Aebersold did exert his copyright.

Linky Lee · Dec 9, 2007

Copyright is such a grey area it's very hard to feel comfortable and secure with using something, especially as an amateur and for study.

I'm sure I've probably broken copyright by posting a sound clip on this site with a backing track that I don't own the copyright for. I'm personally fine with that as I'm not using for any kind of earning or promotion but as a form of study, to seek critical analysis.

It's really hard to say where the buck stops though and that it's unacceptable to use something like that. I'm sure there are probably millions of copyright infringements all over the web, and that the peoples involved would only take action against more serious matters, such as sights activally allowing promotion/earnings etc. through music without purchase of usage etc.

Bobby G · Dec 9, 2007

Does all this mean that technically a PRS payment or somesuch should be made every time a jam session includes Autumn Leaves, Moondance or Summertime etc?

Pete Thomas · Dec 10, 2007

If a venue has a PRS licence, I believe the owner or promoter is responsible for logging the compositions on a form and sending it off. I believe for smaller venues this is not necessary, but there is a threshold of audience capacity at which this should happen.

Whether it does happen and whether PRS can administrate it is a different matter, but if your jam session was at the Royal Festival Hall I think you'd find that you'd be given a form to fill in.

Bobby G · Dec 10, 2007

Yes, I've had 'the form' at some gigs I've played, and not necessarily big places, some quite small ones too. Fortunately, I've only ever been playing self-composed material, or tunes written by the band I was in at the time, but it's hard to know what to put on the form when as a soloist you tend to get caught up in the moment and play whatever song in your repertoire feels right at the time. Then again, I don't recall anyone ever actually checking up afterwards.

Also, what would the situation be for someone like Saxplayer 67, who plays to backing tracks, outside, for what is effectively 'passing trade'?

Saxlicker · Dec 16, 2007

Bobby G wrote:

Also, what would the situation be for someone like Saxplayer 67, who plays to backing tracks, outside, for what is effectively 'passing trade'?

Something like this...

A license to use backing tracks as an accompaniment to live performance is granted only to the nominated licensee.

http://www.jazzbacks.com/terms.html

silver_smurfer · Oct 6, 2008

I've just searched this thread and I apologise if I have missed another which would help to answer my questions.

I find the whole issue of copyright very confusing and open to different interpretations. On many of my playalong books there are clauses stating that none of the material can be replicated in any form. Simply playing the music IS a replication, or does this mean specifically the making of duplicate copies of tracks or scores? How does this affect a busker who wants to play along with a CD/MP3 accompaniment? Would s/he need to plan all the music s/he intends to play and make an application to PRS and/or Playalong publisher in advance? Would this eliminate the possibility of playing requests or spontaneous choice?

It seems to me that buskers have sung and played popular songs for centuries. If this is not now possible, it must be breaching long established customs. I also recall reading that buskers used to convey news across the land, in song and speech. Would copyright censorship constitute an attack on free speech?

Come the revolution... 😡

Pete Thomas · Oct 6, 2008

They certainly mean that you cannot make duplicate copies (copyright = the "right" to "copy". Only the copyright holder has that)

In other works you can't make a copy of the CD and sell, lend or give it away. You also are not allowed to broadcast it (without paying the appropriate licence)

There are several different types of rights though. If you make a copy of a copyright CD or upload a tune to share with other people, then you are infringing the copyright of (1) the songwriter/composer and (2) the owner of the recording (i.e.the record company)

When it comes to performing copyright material, it is usually only the composition that is in question. If you perform on records or live venues there are standard licences that should be paid. With very small venues and busking situations this is neither usually done, nor policed because it's not worth the hassle.

So when busking with a playalong, you are infringing the copyright be broadcasting without a licence, but in most cases it's unlikely Mr Aebersold will jump out from behind a bush and make a citizen's arrest, or that that the police would bother.