Saxophone beginners Come on now, join the band....(Beginners blog)

[cappers]

We have a gig on Tursday at our usual seafront cafe-bar. Set lists are prepared in advance so we can practise beforehand. Those who can and want to put their names down for the solos and depending on performance at the rehearsals are chosen by the MD and BL for the gig.
I asked for and was given Tenor Madness, and A Foggy Day, plus the finale piece Green Onions, where all the soloists take 24 bars.

So I was quite surprised to see the revised set list also has me listed for Alfie's Theme and Cold Duck Time! I played both last rehearsal and apparently they were good. I do enjoy Alfie's Theme, love that 60s groove (I imagine Michael Caine walikng down Piccadilly cliking his fingers to the beat!), but after hearing Sonny Rollins' solo (and @mrblackbat 's) I felt well out of my depth. So I played it simply, sparingly, repeating short refrains derived from the melody and it seemed to work. Hope I don't make a hash of it on the gig!

 

[JSL]

So I was quite surprised to see the revised set list also has me listed for Alfie's Theme and Cold Duck Time!

You can do quite a lot with a minor pentatonic on both of those tunes. But pay attention to the song form and rhythmic element also. And be sure you have the head down on those tunes (I assume you probably do). Should go well. Have fun!

 

[cappers]

You can do quite a lot with a minor pentatonic on both of those tunes. But pay attention to the song form and rhythmic element also.

My teacher and MD both stress the importance of rhythm, then melody, then harmony. Also tempo, dynamics, timbre etc.

Whether or not this is the 'right' way, I tend to solo by what I'm hearing in my head and ears. If I know the song, the key and most of the chord tones I just wing it. A bum note is only a semitone away from a good one, repeat it and it stylistic.

 

[Digger2054]

My teacher and MD both stress the importance of rhythm, then melody, then harmony. Also tempo, dynamics, timbre etc.

Pretty much echoes the advice my teacher has given. It's possible to make one note sound interesting.

My problem is I'm completely empty inside when it comes to making up a rhythm, and internalising the pulse.

 

[cappers]

My problem is I'm completely empty inside when it comes to making up a rhythm, and internalising the pulse.

I've always hummed to myself and made up melodies in my head. Lonely only-child syndrome?
My mother was a professional dancer in her younger days. Perhaps I've acquired her sense of rhythm and timing.

 

[Pete Thomas]

My problem is I'm completely empty inside when it comes to making up a rhythm,

But a lot of people think rhythm is about complexity. I like to think it is about being spot on with, or locked in to, a groove and the relationship of your notes with those of the people you are playing with.

 

[JSL]

But a lot of people think rhythm is about complexity. I like to think it is about being spot on with, or locked in to, a groove and the relationship of your notes with those of the people you are playing with.

Spot on ^^^^^. I was just getting ready write that you don't necessarily have to 'make up' the rhythm. You can listen to and lock in with the rhythm section. Then I read Pete's post, and he said it better.

It's true you can add in certain elements like syncopation and choose the duration of the notes you use, but whatever you do has to fit the groove, which is already there if you're playing with a band. Playing by yourself is a different matter (Sonny Rollins was a master at that), but that's not what we're talking about here.

 

[Dr G]

We have a gig on Tursday at our usual seafront cafe-bar. Set lists are prepared in advance so we can practise beforehand. Those who can and want to put their names down for the solos and depending on performance at the rehearsals are chosen by the MD and BL for the gig.
I asked for and was given Tenor Madness, and A Foggy Day, plus the finale piece Green Onions, where all the soloists take 24 bars.

So I was quite surprised to see the revised set list also has me listed for Alfie's Theme and Cold Duck Time!

Interesting to see this tune pop up. I was listening to some new (to me) CDs this weekend and noticed Cold Duck Time playing.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN_89NRQGtE

 

[Digger2054]

I like to think it is about being spot on with, or locked in to, a groove

I agree, but I struggle with that 😂

 

[Ballymenaboy]

Went to my first community band practice tonight and it was great! Only a couple of miles from me (the Saltdean Jazz Band) with weekly practice sessions in a church and fairly regular gigs at a couple of local pubs and other events. They welcome musicians regardless of the stage they are in their knowledge and experience who enjoy playing music with others for fun.

There are about a fifteen or so regulars, all amateurs save the band leader who is a retired pro. There was keyboard, drums, two electric leads and one bass guitars, two flutes, a trumpet/flugelhorn, a clarinet, two tenors (plus me now), and four altos.

There was another beginner (alto) who couldn't read music at all and he just stood at the back and blew a few notes every so often. I eventually did the same because I didn't have their song book and the two songs they called that I know were 1. in a different key 😳and 2. played at the proper tempo which is more than twice as fast as me.

Nevertheless it was fun. I found that my ears are better than I thought because I was improvising on the melodies, getting a feel of the music's direction and going with the flow. Afterwards one of them said they could hear me playing quietly at the back and thought I was good!

Packing up, the band leader came over and invited me to join saying I'll pick it up quick enough and not to worry about my lack of experience.

Last December when I began my saxophone journey I never for a minute imagined I would be in a band 5 months later

 

[cappers]

^^^^^^^^^ I amazed at how quickly 16 months has passed, and almost a year since I joined the band.
I'm still very much a novice but seem to making headway. Playing in a band has helped me so much in terms of musicality and confidence.
I'm having the time of my life!

 

[cappers]

I've deleted my YouTube account as it was a pain to upload edited files, and have switched to SoundCloud which is straightforward and accepts mp3s without issue. Consequently, my previous efforts at pretending to be a saxophonist have now (thankfully) gone.

Should anyone wish to hear my latest attempts from last Thursday's gig, the link below is to my SC page where one can pick what to listen to.

I know I've a long way to go. Improving I think musically but need to pay more attention to the chord tones and approach notes and especially my voicing. My tone still sucks, much more work needed on the high register notes and breath support. Not making excuses but in the heat of the moment and the excitement of playing I still tend to forget to breathe properly.

Edited The original link went straight to my upload page so here are the individual files:

260507_WC_Tenor Madness
260507_WC_A Foggy Day In London Town
260507_WC_Alfie's Theme
260507_WC_Cold Duck Time
260507_WC_Green Onions

 

[eb424]

Well done @cappers its what its about surely...👍

 

[Dr G]

I know I've a long way to go. Improving I think musically but need to pay more attention to the chord tones and approach notes and especially my voicing. My tone still sucks, much more work needed on the high register notes and breath support. Not making excuses but in the heat of the moment and the excitement of playing I still tend to forget to breathe properly.

Make “breathing properly” part of your everyday daylong experience, then it becomes just breathing.

It’s interesting that babies breathe “properly” until somewhere along the line of time, they learn how to breathe “wrong”.

 

[cappers]

Summary

After about 18 months of learning I can pretty much play the saxophone. Now all I have to do is learn how to play it well I know that will take longer than the years I have left, but I'm going to give it my all as I enjoy it so much.

.....................................................................................................................................................

I have been learning since December 2024 and feel it is time for some critical reflection. I have been told by my teacher, band leader and colleagues that I am making very good progress and am quite musical. Nevertheless I am aware that I still sound like a novice.

Joining a band at about six months has accelerated my reading, playing and general musicality. It has also highlighted my limitations, which is good. But I think the excitement of playing gigs and being asked to do solos massaged my ego and I started to think 'Hey! I'm a player...' and became lax over the basics and fundamentals. Listening back to my recordings made me aware of how weedy and amateurish my tone was a lot of the time, ditto my intonation.

I understood intellectually the importance of good breath support and control, oral cavity shape, embouchure etc. but I was not putting it into action. Fine playing at home but at a gig, nerves and all, and I tended to focus more on what notes to play than their quality.

I decided to go back to basics and concentrate on tone work (apart from rehearsals and a bit of fun after exercises). My guides were the TTS workbook vol1 and Klose's 25 Daily Tortures Exercises, my ears and a tuner. A lot of experimenting with oral cavity shape, mpc position, and breath support/attack/control. Concentrating on blowing through the horn from my belly with focused breath, and it is now becoming more of an instinctive than conscious process.

I think it is paying dividends as I believe my sound is getting richer and fuller, with better dynamic control and articulation. After the last rehearsal the MD said one of my solos was spot on and sounded good. I thanked him and said I still think my tone is poor and he replied I enjoyed listening to it, keep it up. So maybe it is improving.

Although tenor is my preference and band instrument, I like to play alto too. Since getting a PPT mouthpiece I've really had to learn how to control it as it's so much more flexible and responsive to embouchure and breath support than the 4C I was using. Getting the hang of it now and amazed what I can do with it, tonally and dynamically. I'm sure it has helped my tenor playing as I seem to be able to manipulate my sound with the Soloist more than before. Maybe I should get a PPT tenor too. It has definitely made playing the alto more fun.

Thanks for reading. I'll probaly update the blog if and when I have something pleasant to share.

 

[Dr G]

I think it is paying dividends as I believe my sound is getting richer and fuller, with better dynamic control and articulation. After the last rehearsal the MD said one of my solos was spot on and sounded good. I thanked him and said I still think my tone is poor and he replied I enjoyed listening to it, keep it up. So maybe it is improving.

Although tenor is my preference and band instrument, I like to play alto too. Since getting a PPT mouthpiece I've really had to learn how to control it as it's so much more flexible and responsive to embouchure and breath support than the 4C I was using. Getting the hang of it now and amazed what I can do with it, tonally and dynamically. I'm sure it has helped my tenor playing as I seem to be able to manipulate my sound with the Soloist more than before. Maybe I should get a PPT tenor too. It has definitely made playing the alto more fun.

Yes! You are learning to use and control your air. Congrats. Playing the saxophone is such a gas when you reach this level. Enjoy!

 

[cappers]

Yes! You are learning to use and control your air. Congrats. Playing the saxophone is such a gas when you reach this level. Enjoy!

Thank you George. For the first time in eighteen months of learning I'm beginning to enjoy my own playing (even if nobody else does!). Work to do but it's an incentive to keep going.

 

[cappers]

More musings from a wannabe saxophonist.....

....The embouchure....

As a beginner I found the different methods and approches quite confusing. Teal, Allard, purse-string, trout-pout, lip over bottom teeth, lip adjacent to bottom teeth, double lip, rolled out bottom lip, 'no embouchure' embouchure et al. All those how to form a 'perfect' embouchure videos on youtube, where does one begin? They are all correct yet not IMHO universal, they just suit different players and styles.

Realising everyone's oral cavities, tongue shape and size, throat, dentition, lips and jaw, are different and unique, I experimented to find the method that works for me. I started with the classical bottom lip over teeth approach and rapidly went to bottom lip adjacent to teeth which I believe improved my tone. More recently my bottom lip is pushed out a bit more too.
Now using a slight pout, relaxed jaw and lip shape as if pronouncing 'fvu' with minimal tension at the corners of the mouth. This might change over time but seems to be working at present for me. Of course, others might find a different way works best for them.

I've read many times that it is the player that makes the sound - the sax, mouthpiece, reed just modulate/amplify/project the player's intent. It didn't understand at first but I appreciate that now; I really thought it was down to the kit itself. Another comment that makes more sense now is 'you'll eventually sound like you whatever you play'. For quite a while I queried the difference in sound from my Vito-YTS-23 (now sold), Yama YTS-25 and YTS-32. There are slight differences in their core tones but overall I sound pretty much the same now on all of them.

Onwards and upwards

 

[cappers]

Auditory-Tactile Synaesthesia

The MD of our band is a retired professional saxophonist, flautist and guitarist. He has chromaesthenia, and experiences sounds as colours. I found this interesting and read about other types of synaesthenia where sounds elicit shapes, motion, and physical sensations.

As I become more familiar with the sax, and hearing keys, intervals etc. I've noticed that when I'm immersed in the music, whether playing the song or improvising, I can feel what I hear internally. Not so much when listening to music (although I do tend to move or bob to music) but playing something I know and when trying to play what I'm hearing in my head. I can hear and feel the note/pitch at the same time.

It's hard to describe the sensation. Like a pleasant, tingling, warm wave, rising and falling with the pitch. It seems to be centred along the spine but can feel it through my body. Low notes are sensed near the base of the spine, high notes to the head. It is not a 'frisson' which is transitory and generally felt around the shoulders, neck and back of the head, more of a shiver.

I thought I was imagining it but it documented as Auditory-Tactile Synaesthesis. An online search will produce many peer-revised articles. I've read a few of them and some have small sample sizes, use artificial tones, poor controls etc. On the other hand, CT and other imaging techniques have shown that parts of the brain are stimulated by sounds markedly in those having ATS.

It brings to mind the Indian concept of chakras - seven subtle energy centres running through the physical body from the coccyx to the crown of the head. Certain yogic breathing practices aim to control and move the subtle energy around the body. Modern theorists have assigned the chakras to the main endocrine organs, colours, frequencies, and pitches. Tai Chi and Chi Kung also refer to the chakras and subtle energy centres. Just an observation, a correlation rather than a causation (Ice cream sales and drowning?!)

Does anyone here have or know somebody with similar or another from of musical synaesthesia? This is the first time I've mentioned this to anyone for fear of raised eyebrows!

 

[skeller047]

You only raised the corners of my mouth. It warms my heart every time I learn of someone who notices or studies the effects of music on our bodies. The ears are connected directly to several important areas of the brain, some of them quite low in the silly hierarchy that advanced neurologists superimpose on the nervous system. Some of them quite high.

If you want to learn more, go looking for two books by Daniel Levitin - This Is Your Brain On Music and I Heard There Was A Secret Chord. Highly recommended.