Saxophone beginners Come on now, join the band....(Beginners blog)

[cappers]

If you want to learn more, go looking for two books by Daniel Levitin - This Is Your Brain On Music and I Heard There Was A Secret Chord. Highly recommended.

@skeller047 I checked out the books and laughed when I saw this comment, considering the 'discussion' about him on the other (hijacked!) thread....

“No one else in the universe could have written this book.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson, astrophysicist

 

[JSL]

Does anyone here have or know somebody with similar or another from of musical synaesthesia? This is the first time I've mentioned this to anyone for fear of raised eyebrows!

Well yeah, I think so. I may be stretching the term 'musical synesthesia' and I don't think I can put it into words, but playing with a band with a good groove and everything 'firing on all cylinders' is just a fantastic physical 'rush' for me. A full-body experience. And even when practicing, working on a new tune, or musical phrase, when I finally nail it down, I love the feeling I get. The tactile feel on the keys of the horn as well as the feel of the airstream, etc. All of that is what keeps me going and playing music. I never tire of it and I've been doing it most of my life. It just gets better, the more you learn and master.

 

[skeller047]

@skeller047 I checked out the books and laughed when I saw this comment, considering the 'discussion' about him on the other (hijacked!) thread....

“No one else in the universe could have written this book.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson, astrophysicist

Yes, there is an interview Tyson did with Daniel Levitin, where that quote comes from. I like the interviews he does with authors of technical or scientific books; he actually reads the book (or at least the Cliff Notes LOL), and the discussions generally focus in on the core opinions and conclusions of the author, which may not be completely obvious from the book. In this case, the discussion was about I Heard There Was A Secret Chord, which focuses on the use of music in psychotherapy, and specifically helping patients with dementia.

The quote is a bit hyperbolic, as there is quite a lot of focus on the specifics of human neurology, so assuming that there would be evolutionary differences between humans and beings inhabiting other planets, the observation is accurate….

 

[Targa]

The quote is a bit hyperbolic, as there is quite a lot of focus on the specifics of human neurology, so assuming that there would be evolutionary differences between humans and beings inhabiting other planets, the observation is accurate….

Or the quote is inaccurate taking the universe as infinite therefore an infinite number of posssibilites.

 

[cappers]

Well yeah, I think so. I may be stretching the term 'musical synesthesia' and I don't think I can put it into words, but playing with a band with a good groove and everything 'firing on all cylinders' is just a fantastic physical 'rush' for me.

I definitely get a buzz playing when in the groove, but this is more.
A physical bodily sensation whose location corresponds to the pitch or note being played or 'heard' in my mind.

The quote is a bit hyperbolic,......

I was more amused that Tyson's name popped up after Grumps comment: "There is no border to Neil deGrasse Tyson's ignorance." Playing the saxophone - Why do you play saxophone? Some thoughts.

I've ordered 'I Heard There Was A Secret Chord' and 'This Is Your Brain On Music', and will draw my own conclusions.

 

[Digger2054]

I don't know if it's the same, but my teacher has described similar, he see's / hears music as shapes. Like written music makes shapes. When he's improvising he's thinking of shapes. To what extent I've no idea.

I definitely get a buzz playing when in the groove, but this is more.
A physical bodily sensation whose location corresponds to the pitch or note being played or 'heard' in my mind.

I did an improvised solo last year, other than knowing what 6 notes to use, I just played what came out.

It was quite a surreal experience, I couldn't tell you what I played. No panic, no stress, my mind was bizarrely empty and it just happened, and got lots of positive feedback.

It's not happened to the same extent, but there's been moments in my lessons where I don't seem to be thinking about what I should, it's almost automatically happening.

Today's lesson I was playing through some chords I wasn't familiar with, I found myself kind of guessing what was next, and what notes, I was getting nods of approval from my teacher.

It's a bizarre sensation, almost mediative, but pretty cool too. I'd love to know what it feels like for the pro's, if it's just as calm & tranquil.

 

[cappers]

First gig for me today since the beginning of May.
The venue was a local outdoor site by the river in a marquee with a beer and pizza bar.
Here's my rendition of Mr PC.
It's not great but I think (hope) my tone and playing has improved a bit since I last posted.
I'm sure any deficiencies will be pointed out! 😱

View: https://youtu.be/-Nt5YxyzLFI

 

[MikeMorrell]

First gig for me today since the beginning of May.
The venue was a local outdoor site by the river in a marquee with a beer and pizza bar.
Here's my rendition of Mr PC.
It's not great but I think (hope) my tone and playing has improved a bit since I last posted.
I'm sure any deficiencies will be pointed out! 😱

View: https://youtu.be/-Nt5YxyzLFI

Sounds good to me!

I was amazed to see that your band has such a professional mic setup! Really great to see!

My Big Band doesn't (except for the vocalist who uses the same speaker as our keyboard player). The guitarist uses his own amp. All other instruments play acoustically (whatever the venue).

I recorded my Big Band's recent 'anniversary concert' on a centrally placed Zoom recorder with just the 2 (small) built-in mics. I did a bit of audio post-processing (EQ, Amplification) to adjust the recorded volume and mainly 'boost' the vocals above the 'backing' of the band. At our last rehearsal, we spent about an hour listening to my 'processed' recordings through speakers.

Our MD complimented me on my recordings and often made some comments while we were listening. So he would sometimes say "Stop" (=Pause) midway through a track and also occasionally comment after a track had finished. The vast majority of his comments were on 'timing' (and interpretation of the 'swing feel'). A few comments were on the fact that the soloists 'didn't stand out enough in the band'. This was both a comment on the soloists for not 'letting rip' (in terms of volume) but also on the band as a whole on not reducing their volume (enough) when they were backing a soloist.

Which brings me to your video clip.

Personally, I found that your solo was fine but that:
-in the first part of your solo (without band backing) you were clearly audible
- in the second part (with band backing) your solo was a bit 'drowned out' by the band backing

If you (enviably!) have individual - or shared - mics, then IMHO the band should use them to their full advantage. By the sound of the clip, I doubt that have a 'live mixer' who stands ready to adjust individual mic levels for each number. But maybe I'm wrong. Not a problem because IMHO there's a lot your band can do to (better) adjust their mic levels 'manually' too. Just a few thoughts after watching and listening to your clip a couple of times:
- your mic (which looks to me like a 'personal mic') looks way too high when you know a solo is coming up; so lowering (and/or tilting) your mic lower towards the bell may make your sax solos stand out more (in terms of volume). You can of course re-adjust your mic when your solo's end
- If the band needs to reduce their volume when backing your solos, there are perhaps few things the rest of the band could do:

• play more softly? (perhaps difficult if mic'd up)
• stand further away from their mics?
• tilt their mics sideways (or reverse) so that the mics are picking up less 'volume'?​

I have absolutely no idea how you set up your 'sound balance' in the band nor whether there's a 'mixer' who dynamically adjusts this.

It of course depends on the venue. But there are IMHO instruments who always need to be mic'd up to be audible in a band. Notably flautists and clarinet players. Possibly (backing) sax players too. But 'brass players'? IMHO, there's never been a problem hearing trombone and trumpet players 'loud and clear' in live performances.

So - just as a complete amateur with absolutely no experience in micing or live mixing a band - I humbly suggest that your band considers how best to use its 'individual/shared mic' resources to audibly 'highlight' solo performance. Especially those with band backings.

TBH I'm just really jealous of the professional mic set-up that your band has 😉,

Mike

 

[cappers]

I was amazed to see that your band has such a professional mic setup! Really great to see!

I wish! It was provided by the event organisers, with a sound tech who set it up.
Usually those that need amplification have their own mikes and speakers - flutes, keys, electric bass and guitars. Doesn't always work that well as no central mixing, so they do it by ear.

your mic (which looks to me like a 'personal mic') looks way too high when you know a solo is coming up;

I had two mikes. The one to my front right was the 'speaking' mike - I was the MC. The one on my left between the other tenor and I was our shared 'music' mike. The sound tech set it up that way and said it was ok after the sound check. Maybe we should have pointed it down for the solos? The sound guy didn't do any live mixing as far as I know. To us as players it sounded really good (we had monitors at the front).

One of the band uses a Zoom recorder on a high tripod at mid audience range. The files are shared so we can hear and note flaws in our performances.

I'm not satisfied with my tone at times, much more work to do on that. Overall it was a fun gig and the audience seemed to enjoy it.

 

[Digger2054]

Nice solo, I can't add much to what Mike has said.

I'm not satisfied with my tone at times

To my untrained ear, it sounds quite pinched, like your embouchure is quite tight. That's not to say it sounds bad, just quite narrow and focussed. My teacher from day one has emphasised being very open, and relaxed when playing, to create a bigger, fat, full sound. It's not louder as such, but seems to travel further, fill a room.

Think you're an opera singer, singing a really low note, whilst playing, a nice wide open throat, lots of air support, relaxed embouchure and let it sing, it'll all go out the window when it comes to a gig though

Overall it was a fun gig and the audience seemed to enjoy it.

That's the important bit. I fluffed a Bari Solo in my last concert (that's a whole other story as to why), but took the positives that I salvaged it, kept calm and just waited for beat 1, the 2nd repeat was spot on. The audience didn't notice, and the conductor and band were impressed I managed to hold it together.

 

[cappers]

Nice solo, I can't add much to what Mike has said.

Thank you.

To my untrained ear, it sounds quite pinched, like your embouchure is quite tight. That's not to say it sounds bad jjust quite narrow and focussed.

Yes, my feeling. I know I need a more open throat and more relaxed embouchure and have been working on that.
When I practice at home I can do it and the sound is fuller. When playing live to an audience I must be tensing up hence the pinched tone at times.
I'll get there with more practise but as you said - "it'll all go out the window when it comes to a gig though "

The audience didn't notice

A few people came up to me afterwards and said I sounded good!? Maybe they were hard of hearing!

 

[PiccoloPirate]

Hard to tell from the video, but when moving your head/horn side to side, make sure you're keeping the MP/horn, from moving in your mouth, while blowing.
Much improved. 👍
Best way to learn to relax and have fun, with an audience, is to do it more often, know the music, and early on, even your solos. 🎯

 

[cappers]

Thank you @PiccoloPirate

I wonder if my excess motion made me grip the mpc more tightening my embouchure. I must control myself but moving helps me with time and rhythm.

We have six gigs booked between this coming Saturday and September so lots of rehearsals and live practise ahead.

I think I play too many notes. Trying to aim for chord tones and adjacent notes but it might benefit from more repetition of both key notes and phrases with more chord lead tones.
More Desmond than Brecker - in my dreams

 

[wakyct]

One thing you could try is playing more off the beat, maybe using more pauses in your phrases, a few longer notes and some syncopation.

 

[cappers]

One thing you could try is playing more off the beat, maybe using more pauses in your phrases, a few longer notes and some syncopation.

The silly thing is I know this and want to play that way. When trying out stuff in my head or on the sax at home I can do it, but in the heat of the moment at a gig I seem to blow too many notes. If I blew fewer notes and had more pauses I could listen more and 'think' ahead better.
Bit by bit.....

 

[Tenor Viol]

With regard to synaesthesia - yes, I do know someone who is a very good violinist who has this. She recently completed an MA in art and her final project was a large painting which was a representation of how she 'sees' Mendelssohn's violin concerto.

 

[MikeMorrell]

The silly thing is I know this and want to play that way. When trying out stuff in my head or on the sax at home I can do it, but in the heat of the moment at a gig I seem to blow too many notes. If I blew fewer notes and had more pauses I could listen more and 'think' ahead better.
Bit by bit.....

For the audience, I wouldn't say that you played 'too many notes'. But creating longer pauses for yourself may well allow you to 'catch your breath' more often. For me, there are many positive take-aways from your solo:
- you played clear (4 bar) 'phrases' throughout
- you repeated 'patterns'
- You started off in the lower register, building the (unaccompanied) part of your solo up to a (leading)higher note to the second (accompanied) part of your solo in the higher register, ending on a 'climax'

All good points IMHO that enable audiences to 'follow' your solo.

On @wakyct's point about including off-beat notes and syncopation. Syncopation can add variation but IMHO keep it short (1-2 bars at a time). On off-beat notes, it seems to me that you played some phrases in the first part of your solo 'straighter' (1,2,3,4) than the short section of band music (in 'swing timing') at the start. With the band accompaniment, your solo naturally fell into the 'swing' rhythm. Just something to be aware of (carrying through the 'rhythm' of the melody through into your solo).

MIke

 

[cappers]

Thank you @MikeMorrell In hindsight I was quite nervous.

Hadn't played a gig since early May and had the usual 'do I sound OK?', 'is this working?' thoughts!
Also, I was asked to MC the event so there was the pressure of engaging the audience, saying something brief and relevant (and amusing where appropriate) about each song, acknowledging the soloists, etc.

All advice duly noted and will work on it. Number one being improving my tone - keeping my jaw and embouchure relaxed, opening my throat more and stronger breath support. If I can get a fairly decent tone at home/rehearsals, I should be able to do it 'live'. Deep breath and relax.

All part of this lovely learning curve. Have I mentioned how much I am enjoying all this? Taking up the sax has been the most fulfilling thing I've ever done.

 

[PiccoloPirate]

Moving while playing is great, just keep the MP from wiggling, when the air is flowing.
It's another skill to learn and practice.
Tenor Sax in the front line, Twist, Mashed Potato, etc etc, were essential for playing music in those days.
Salsa is current.
Moon Dance, takes extra effort. 😵‍💫

 

[cappers]

Taking the risk of boring you all but just got this soundclip of me soloing Tenor Madness.
Taken on a Zoom H2N near the front of the stage.
It sounds pinched initially but I think I loosened up about halfway through and my tone maybe improved?

View: https://youtu.be/W6CWI_ky4UM

Thank you.