Carrying Out Repairs Yourself?

[Kinda]

Has anyone learnt how to carry out there own repairs and what would/wouldn't they tackle.

I was initially thinking of pads, what's involved, how do you learn and how long would it take.

I've noticed on this web there are advierts for manuals and DVDs etc, has anyone used them for repairs?

Guess it seems easy but I'm sure its not?

 

[Pete Thomas]

It would be nice if there was something like this for players.

I've had mixed results with repadding. If the horn is all straight and tickety boo, it can be quite straightforward if you good with your hands, but if the body is bent or the cups are not lines up with the tone holes for any reason, or the toneholes are out of whack, then you get problems.

 

[Bobby G]

Hi Frank - I'll have a go at tinkering with my saxophones, although I haven't tackled replacing a pad yet, I'd probably leave that to someone who knew what they were doing. When it comes to simpler things, such as adjusting spring tensions, lubricating moving parts, adjusting regulation, or finding and fixing leaks I'm quite willing to get in there and try it.

However, there are some useful things to remember - when making adjustments to springs or screws, it's a good idea to remember where you started and by how much you have made an adjustment (e.g. remember which screw you turned 1/4 turn and in what direction so if it makes the horn worse you know where to go to restore the screw to its original position); bearing in mind some horns have a lot of adjustment screws it is possible that adjusting a screw at one point can have an effect somewhere unexpected unless you can fix in your mind the relationship between various rods, cups, linking mechanisms etc.

Also, leaks can be fixed by very gently bending the cup so it seals evenly all around the tonehole - a tip I got from Griff is to place a reed between the cup and the tonehole on the opposite side to where you have found a leak, and push down gently over the point where you have a leak. By doing this, you don't risk bending anything too far out of whack, and it's possible to make quite small adjustments this way.

It's all good fun really, but be gentle with your horn and only make small adjustments, working towards the ideal and you should be ok.

 

[stephen_howard]

I often recommend that players have a go at carrying out their own simple repairs - but I wouldn't place pads in that category.
Setting a pad is one of those skills that might have been a candidate for that part of 'The Generation Game' where the contestant get to watch something like a potter or a cake decorator at work for a minute or two, then have to give it their best shot themselves.

The principle is dead easy; remove the old pad, ensure the tonehole and key cup are level, fit the correct size and thickness of pad with an appropriate heat-soluble glue - then simply set the pad.
And yet even after 30 years of doing it, day in - day out, it can still take me half an hour to deal with some pads.

By far the most important skill is knowing when a pad isn't really set - which means it might well look like it's set, but you know all too well that it wouldn't keep that seat for much more than a couple of weeks at best.

I reckon the best bet for home tweaking is to learn how the action works so that you can adjust corks and felts without causing leaks or adding clunks ( double action ) into the mechanism; the principles of springing, so that you can adjust indivudual keys to suit your requirements without unbalancing the feel - and most importantly, self diagnosis...which will allow you to identify faults ( existing and potential ).

It's also important not to overlook the basics - keeping your horn clean, dry and well-lubricated ( and this doesn't mean oiling it every week! ) will save you far more than you will ever save by learning how to do your own advanced repairs.

Regards,

 

[greg_strange]

Over the last 12 months I have purchased a couple of repair type books for wind instruments, "The Saxophone Is My Voice" from MusicMedic, and The Eric Brand book from Ferres Tools, the Eric Brand book according to Emilio Lyons in Saxophone Journal is the "Bible" of wind instrument repair. I found both books quite confusing as they do not have a step by step instructions/procedures in how to do the work. Something in the format of the Haynes Car and Motorcycle Repair Manuals would be excellent, but there does not appear to be anything available. It is especially difficult in a place like New Zealand where there is very few decent repair people around and there is no formal teaching facility in New Zealand as far as I know.
I presume repair people like Stephen Howard or Griff have probably had formal training at Merton College (is that the name of the place?) in South London?
Anyway, it is excellent to have people like Stephen or Griff around and able to answer questions, even if they are 12,000 miles away (from me anyway).
Regards,
Greg Strange.

 

[Kinda]

Hi All

Very interesting and just from your posts I now realise what a skilled job it is and they hint at the complexity that lies behind the sax.


I would be interested to know if anyone has experience of Merton evening class.

Thanks

 

[stephen_howard]

Ahem...

As it happens I would like to take this opportune moment to announce ( this is an exclusive, folks! ) that I have recently signed a contract with Haynes to write precisely the book that Greg is looking for.

Yep - the Haynes guide to Saxophone Care and Maintenance.
It's not quite going to be a repair manual as such - I believe it's a fallacy to assume you can learn advanced instrument repair techniques from a book simply because the art of repair is such an inexact one. There are so many techniques that can't be mastered without the benefit of having someone beside you showing you exactly how it's done.
What the book will do though is show people how to do advanced maintenance...how to strip and reassemble a horn, how to adjust the action, replace corks and felts and springs etc.- and most importantly, how to tweak the horn and diagnose problems....without needing to spend considerable sums on specialist tools.
And, of course, it will have the benefit of some serious clout with regard to production...no fuzzy drawings or happy-snappy photos...we're talking big-budget glossy presentation.

Why not go for the full monty and produce a repair manual?
Well, I attended the two year full-time course at Merton...and even after all that time I was very aware when I left that I'd only begun to scratch the surface. I have spent the following decades learning how to perfect and improve my skills, and I'm still learning to this day. I don't believe a manual ( on paper or video ) can replace that - and I feel it's disingenuous to sell people a manual that claims to do so.
I believe that part-time courses can be valuable - but they need to be focussed on the sort of repairs that can be done without the aid of expensive and specialist tools, and not the techniques that require you to practice every day for many years in order to master them.


Regards,

 

[jonf]

Stephen

Did you know that Haynes manuals are know in motorcycling circles as 'The Haynes Book of Lies'? That their most famous phrase is 'Assembly is the reverse of disassembly' ?

Seriously, I very happy to read that you'll be writing a Haynes manual on the sax. I do actually have their manuals for all my bikes, and I find them very useful. If anything, their format will be better suited to a sax than a bike. I'll be buying a copy when it comes out.

Jon

 

[stephen_howard]

Yeah, I've heard that one - used it myself too on many occasions. I did remark upon it when I spoke to the people at Haynes...they like to think of it in 'affectionate terms'!
Then again, I have a Haynes manual for almost every car I've ever owned. In some cases I had the full workshop manual too - and usually ended up with a gearbox in bits with both manuals open in front of me...and between us all we always managed to get the job done.

I'm very proud to be associated with the name - even more so because it was they who approached me with the idea.

Now...where can I find a smoker's jacket, a fez, a briar pipe and cabinet for my inevitable OBE....

Regards,

 

[wavygravy]

stephen....any ideas when this haynes manual will be available
cheers
neil

 

[stephen_howard]

It'll be sometime next year - it takes them six months from the time the final draft has been submitted to publication.

Regards,

 

[old_git]

Stephen,
I am willing to pay for a copy, autographed by you of course for Pete to auction for his charity.

 

[Mikec]

old git wrote:
Stephen,
I am willing to pay for a copy, autographed by you of course for Pete to auction for his charity.

Good idea.

 

[wavygravy]

cheers stephen...will you post on here when its available please..it sounds really interesting.......make sure you leave a contact number on the last page of the manual for repairing all the damage we cause...you`ll be a millionaire in no time.
neil

 

[stephen_howard]

I'm kinda hoping that by sticking to the essentials and being very clear about what can or shouldn't be done, there shouldn't be too much risk involved for the home tweaker. That said, the diagnostics bit will probably result in quite a few broken horns coming out of the woodwork...but I doub't I'll benefit - I'll be sitting in my 'club' quaffing gin...or lazing on my motor-yacht..

Ahem.

Old Git - nice thought, though I can't imagine anyone forking out big bucks for my scrawly old signature...though I have considered selling signed copies ( only at rrp ) from my website.
I had a chat with Pete recently about an idea that might raise a few quid.

Regards.

 

[Bobby G]

Stephen, the idea of a Haynes sax manual is fantastic, and I'm really glad you've got the job of writing it - hopefully it willinclude some of your renowned anecdotes too!

I though Haynes manuals were only for cars (I still have my MkIII Cortina one somewhere) and would have thought you were joking except for the fact that earlier this very day I saw a Haynes manual on PC repair (reassembly is the reverse of disassembly :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: ) in a branch of Maplins.

All the best with it, I'm sure it will be on many Christmas lists for 2009 🙂

 

[stephen_howard]

I was rather surprised myself - but then I took a look at their website and discovered that thet do manual for all manner of things these days....lawnmowers, washing machines, Femder Strats...even lifestyle stuff like alcohol, sex and teenagers ( not all in the same book! ).


Regards,

 

[Bobby G]

I had my first look under the bonnet of my new S-Max today, it needed the washer bottle filling. That's about as far as I'll go I think. Cortinas, Escorts, no trouble; these new fangled things? Like the man said, just a big black box with some hoses sticking out of one side.

 

[greg_strange]

Hi Stephen,

Excellent news about the manual. Is that the huge project you refer to on your website? When I first read your Spring 2008 update I thought you might be releasing your own horns - Stephen Howard or SH branded saxes, perhaps. If it's good enough for Kenny G. or Phil Barone...
No doubt with the future success of your repair manual, you'll be able to trade the motor-yacht for a super yacht.
Once again, thanks for your continued contributions and advice to the global saxophone community.
Regards,
Greg Strange.

 

[stephen_howard]

Yep, that's the forthcoming 'news'....so you heard it here first!

Cheers!